ENIC

[RigorMortis]

that's not a contradictory statement, I say both, we have to cut our cloth accordingly

it's not hope, its inevitable, there was a time when Leeds and Boro were signing the players we wanted, look what happened to them

This is what you said “you do have to accept our standing in the food chain though, that is fixed, no matter who the owner is” and you are now saying our place in the food chain can change

mate if they wanted to put an example of contradiction in a dictionary they could use your last few posts.

I’ve never wanted any players that Boro have wanted and Boro falling away ( who I would wager never finished higher than seventh or so in the league)and the old “doing a Leeds” are your examples of why it’s inevitable and we should wait for an undetermined period of time for the Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea owners to lose interest, for Liverpool and United to also fall away and who else before we amazingly rise from the ashes and wait for our chance

 

[RigorMortis]

OK, so may be positive contribution. Agreed that we can't know for sure, but it cannot possibly be a negative and most likely a good nudge in the right direction.

Yes,great decision to hire Pochettino. There have been good and bad appointments as there is at any club. When Levy gets those right the results follow. Can criticise Levy for getting too many decisions wrong in that regard, but from where I'm seeing things I'm not seeing that Levy is particularly bad in that regard. I have little hope that a new chairman would be better.

It’s a fair point
I’m not saying ENIC have been all bad although I certainly think there underlying motive has been more to enhance the value to sell the club on over success on the pitch. I also don’t know how good a new owner would be, what I do think during the here and now is that ENIC aren’t doing a very good job in terms of footballing matters. I would also disagree on the fact they make more good descisions than bad, I’d think their three proven good descisions have been hiring Jol, Redknapp and Poch.

hopefully they will have a fourth on appointing Conte

 

[Baleforce]

This is what you said “you do have to accept our standing in the food chain though, that is fixed, no matter who the owner is” and you are now saying our place in the food chain can change

mate if they wanted to put an example of contradiction in a dictionary they could use your last few posts.

I’ve never wanted any players that Boro have wanted and Boro falling away ( who I would wager never finished higher than seventh or so in the league)and the old “doing a Leeds” are your examples of why it’s inevitable and we should wait for an undetermined period of time for the Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea owners to lose interest, for Liverpool and United to also fall away and who else before we amazingly rise from the ashes and wait for our chance

yeah, fixed relative to others, based on money, its unreasonable to expect us to get targets in front of Saudi Sportswashing Machine and city now, yet when they were in the championship, that wasn't the case

you didn't want Juninho or Ravanelli?

 

[Bishop]

He's clearly not, I'm not seeing an argument that he is. If you want you can hope for an owner that wouldn't be like that, I think the chances of a switch being negative is at least as big as it being positive.

Success on the pitch increases the value of the club. Levy's primary objective and that of the club is mostly in alignment. That's all we can realistically hope for imo.

Success on the pitch is a risky financial proposition. Living off the success of the growth of the PL without having to make any particularly risky financial decisions is the wise thing to do. Look at the value the PL has increased and subsequently Spurs have at the same time without having to spend a penny. It's genius.

It's also why we are never going to see a change in their operating model. What does winning the PL gain the club financially versus the financial risk involved? To a fan that's everything, but Levy and Lewis are not fans.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Lilbaz]

That’s probably a sound descision after the mess autonomy were in

The courts decided they weren't in a mess. Hp simply overpaid. But yes there was a lot of mud thrown about.

 

[parklane1]

For me, the end-game in terms of my support for ENIC (or maybe my tolerance would be a better term - I 'support' my club) starts now I think. We are the other side of covid, and I really believe we need to see a good two years of the new stadium in action to see how the football club benefits. This is what was supposed to help elevate us, so let's give it a chance to produce, in my view. We do need to get that naming rights deal in place, as that will relieve some of the debt repayment obligations.
To go through all the years of frugality with the stadium build, to throw everything out now, feels wrong to me. If at the end of that period it does not feel* that we are in a better position then I will find it harder to justify the current set-up.
*Admittedly at this stage I don't know quite what my criteria would be to make that judgement.

I also agree with the post from @DTA that came in whilst I was typing this one - I do believe that Levy wants footballing success for the club, but he does have a very cautious approach to achieving it, and I don't think his MO is going to change significantly. Not necessarily a bad thing but this is why I am putting faith in the next couple of years to bring about the security in the club finances/revenues that will allow us to improve, even within the confines of Levy's operating model.
As for Lewis, no, I don't think he particularly cares about footballing success at all.

Great post.

 

[RigorMortis]

yeah, fixed relative to others, based on money, its unreasonable to expect us to get targets in front of Saudi Sportswashing Machine and city now, yet when they were in the championship, that wasn't the case

you didn't want Juninho or Ravanelli?

If it’s fixed in relation then it’s not fixed. And as I’ve have said it’s not just about spending money it’s about making sound descisions for the team.


I would have liked Juninho when he was sold by Boro, ravinelli I wasn’t particularly fussed although it was a long time ago and pre ENIC and also Boro got relegated, came back up , won a trophy, competed in a European final and then got relegated again

it’s quite a stretch to go from ravanelli to that. this inevitability stuff is pie in the sky

 

[glasgowspur]

This is the first real period of on the pitch regression since they got their feet under the table (post Arnesen) and it's brought a real level of toxicity from the fanbase - personally I'd call that fickle

We regressed because we over achieved and got higher than anyone expected.
In reach for that unexpected high we have fallen further back.
In retrospect the CL final was a curse.

 

[RigorMortis]

This is the first real period of on the pitch regression since they got their feet under the table (post Arnesen) and it's brought a real level of toxicity from the fanbase - personally I'd call that fickle

I wouldn’t say it’s their first period
There was a slight regression when we sold berbs and Keane

you could also argue there was one after redknapp went and avb came in albeit very small

we had a far higher high and then we failed to build

I can’t speak on behalf of the whole fan base but I certainly believe that mistrust of ENIC has always been there, that the risk required to push on doesn’t really justify the expenditure and just middling around with an occasional top four finish and champions league push works far better for them.

Fristration is growing and I don’t see it as fickle at all.

in fact I see some of the posters on this thread and their reactions to any antinENIC sentiment far more odd

 

[billyiddo]

I wouldn’t say it’s their first period
There was a slight regression when we sold berbs and Keane

you could also argue there was one after redknapp went and avb came in albeit very small

we had a far higher high and then we failed to build

I can’t speak on behalf of the whole fan base but I certainly believe that mistrust of ENIC has always been there, that the risk required to push on doesn’t really justify the expenditure and just middling around with an occasional top four finish and champions league push works far better for them.

Fristration is growing and I don’t see it as fickle at all.

in fact I see some of the posters on this thread and their reactions to any antinENIC sentiment far more odd

Having a season or two where you take a step back before once again progressing back beyond where you were initially isn't regressing and it would be entirely unfair to not expect teams to do so - it happens to every club including the likes of City Liverpool United and Chelsea.

We're currently on an extended bad spell stretching back to when we left WHL, i don't think it's a coincidence that our on the field regression has come at the time we transitioned from WHL to NWHL

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

So we are moaning about moaning?

Yes I always moan about moaning. Like I told my kids if you keep moaning when you dont win a game stop playing, the playing is supposed to be fun winning is a bonus.

 

[billyiddo]

Yes I always moan about moaning. Like I told my kids if you keep moaning when you dont win a game stop playing, the playing is supposed to be fun winning is a bonus.

Something has happened over the last 5-10 years where that sentiment has been lost - id like to blame it on social media but i don't want to sound like an old git.

Someone on here recently said Spurs fans had a right to be depressed after decades of dissapointment - i mean GHod help these guys if they actually supported any one of 95% of professional clubs who have less to cheer about than us

 

[Robspur12]

Having a season or two where you take a step back before once again progressing back beyond where you were initially isn't regressing and it would be entirely unfair to not expect teams to do so - it happens to every club including the likes of City Liverpool United and Chelsea.

We're currently on an extended bad spell stretching back to when we left WHL, i don't think it's a coincidence that our on the field regression has come at the time we transitioned from WHL to NWHL

The big issues for me are the following.

The degree of regression after Poch, where other teams built on reaching the Champs league final we are now struggling in the conference League. That is some regression.

Secondly, and I know a lot of people won't agree with this, but to remove Jose just a week before a cup final to scupper even the slimmest glimmer of hope to win the tournament. They did the same with George Graham before the Arsenal semi in 2001. I don't think their priority is to win trophies.

I also think appointing Conte was about the name rather than the right appointment for the club. For me I feel that will again prove to be a mistake, a mistake that will be borne out across the coming months. There have been too many of those decisions around managerial appointments, with the best appointments generally coming after the first choice has failed or turned them down.

 

[Robspur12]

Something has happened over the last 5-10 years where that sentiment has been lost - id like to blame it on social media but i don't want to sound like an old git

I think it is much more complicated mate. Poch's success gave us a taste of what can be achieved. Imagine we had backed him at the critical moments. Instead look at us now, it's galling. Well that is how I see it anyway.

 

[Gazza]

Yes I always moan about moaning. Like I told my kids if you keep moaning when you dont win a game stop playing, the playing is supposed to be fun winning is a bonus.

Watching Spurs decline and being told that we are competitive is not enjoyable. No I'm not enjoying much about spurs these days, and being competitive would be the bonus.

 

[Robspur12]

Watching Spurs decline and being told that we are competitive is not enjoyable. No I'm not enjoying much about spurs these days, and being competitive would be the bonus.

While paying the highest ticket prices....most people would be angry if they were paying through the nose for service and it was not delivering.

 

[billyiddo]

I think it is much more complicated mate. Poch's success gave us a taste of what can be achieved. Imagine we had backed him at the critical moments. Instead look at us now, it's galling. Well that is how I see it anyway.

It goes back beyond that - you know as well as i do there's a not so insignificant number of people who dismiss Pochettinos time at the club because he left without a trophy - that's what football has become, none of it matters unless you're watching 22 blokes who don't even know you exist lift a trophy at the end of the season.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Simple answer if I had confidence that ENIC had a coherent strategy for the club I couldn’t care less, I have no interest in NFL or GNR being at the stadium apart from how they impact our performance on the pitch, so far I have seen no impact.

I have seen two times where we have had the opportunity and we haven’t taken the step forward.

Guns N Roses haven’t performed at the stadium and I can’t comment on their impact on our transfer kitty.

Unfortunately the training complex and the stadium revenue hasn’t equated to progress on the pitch, in fact we are falling behind.

Conte’s latest comments indicate our strategy remains unchanged. City and Chelsea being oiled doesn’t explain why Leiscter and Liverpool have won trophies.Hell even arse have won the cup

There is an intangible in terms of luck but in general having a coherent strategy for the football side would lead to success particularly with the revenue as you say we generate.

it’s not just about spending money, it’s about showing a degree of competency on the football side.

Look at Liverpool in my opinion they are preparing for when Salah, mane and firminho leave by bring on Diaz and Jota

We have been struggling to have a back up striker for years, we didn’t prepare for the departure of dembele, when we finally spent money we sacked the a manager who bought in the players.

I find it utterly shambolic, ENIC’s best policy seems to be if there’s a crisis let’s hire an ex Chelsea manager and see if they can spread some magic dust.

ENIC are risk averse and they make more bad descision a than good on the football side.

also I believe they have a nice little earner here and I believe don’t really have the ambition to succeed on the footballing side unless it’s just quick little jumps
More by luck than any sembelance of a long term strategy.
They continue to charge the highest ticket prices, our revenue streams are great yet the football side continues to stumble

Do I see us ever being successful on a football pitch under ENIC, sadly no and I haven’t seen a substantial argument ( that doesn’t involve wow is me others won the lottery and look at our growth) that counters this

The coherent strategy is to increase our revenue via the new stadium, which is all reinvested. That has been the modus operandi for years as you know. It was a massive undertaking and should help the club for the foreseeable, long past Levy. No club ever ever gets transfers spot on all the time everytime. There will be ups and downs. You could argue Levy's impatience has meant we have lost some stability and are floundering with so many different managers in a short period - that makes it difficult to rebuild the side which takes time and a consistent manager. But then it tends to be the enic out types that also want instant solutions. And Levy trying to bring about quick wins is what you presumably want too. But a patient approach where we have stability, consistency and build one step at a time is what will see us prosper.

You're big on criticism, but have no ideas on how to deliver what it is you want to see. Easy to criticise. Much harder to create.

 

[Lilbaz]

While paying the highest ticket prices....most people would be angry if they were paying through the nose for service and it was not delivering.

Price is determined by supply and demand. If fans wan't cheaper ticket prices they need to stop paying at the price offered.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It goes back beyond that - you know as well as i do there's a not so insignificant number of people who dismiss Pochettinos time at the club because he left without a trophy - that's what football has become, none of it matters unless you're watching 22 blokes who don't even know you exist lift a trophy at the end of the season.

As I said Pochs greatest achievement was uniting the club
That’s not been done before or since