Emerson Royal

[glasgowspur]

You must have missed the match thread. The same usual faces were digging out Kane and Son after 20 mins. Apparently it’s all on them when we lose, but when they play well and we win, oh well…..it’s expected of them. Basically a no win situation for them.

As for Royal, he was awful and doesn’t actually do anything well, including defending. Sessegnon’s crossing was just as bad but at least he got into some good positions.

I was getting ready to go out so couldn't read it and ive skimmed it.
Ive seen kulu get dug out more than Kane and son, although as i said, I'm skimming.
We can't have two games against teams the level of Brighton and brentford not have a shot on target and only blame the wbs, that won't get us anywhere.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It is not really Royal's fault. He is a decent defender. Asking him to be an attacker is a stretch and on Conte more than on Royal. Been slated for suggesting Kulu at RWB and Moura attacking, but had Conte gone with this change halfway through the 2nd half after we lost the initiative, I think we'd have kept up the attacking momentum we had, and maybe forced a goal. With 5 mins to go, Moura got through and was taken out. Shame we didn't see more of him.

Mistakes like Royale happen when you employ a brick, 9th choice manager, only to inevitably sack him and replace with a manger with a whole different football philosophy a quarter of the way into the season, so the new man in doesn’t get a summer window to shape his squad (massive money wasted on Royale and Gill, neither of which fit a Conte formation).

Our 3-4-3 means we are reliant on our wing backs to be creative players, but Royale doesn’t have a creative bone in his body. Teams have also now sussed out that Dier cannot pass so are basically allowing him to have the ball, even trying to create situations with a press so that he gets it as he had a terrible tendency to hit suicidal balls centrally, shortish to our attacking players, with us then in massive trouble if the opposition turn it over. The Arsenal and Liverpool games worry me massively in this respect. Three times he gave Brentford the ball so they were running at us centrally with reasonably equal numbers immediately after the transition (that is at least one goal conceded against Arsenal or Liverpool)

Such a shame that we didn’t go balls out for Corona in January (went to Seville for only a £3m transfer fee) as he would’ve given us exactly the creativity we need and can play as WB on either side. Now Doherty is injured we don’t have the personnel to play 3-4-3 and we are effectively therefore a man short when attacking.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No I'm not, but they weren't the only ones, but they're taking all the blame.

They’re taking some of the blame. Everyone to a man was poor yesterday, apart from Lloris. But it seems that Kane and Son as our two best players take the lions share of the blame whenever we don’t win. Kane is clearly in a goal drought. Son was in a purple patch until the last two games. They both had bad games against Brighton and Brentford. But the rest of the team isn’t up to scratch, which isn’t the forwards fault. Like it or not, the full backs are crucial to how we play. Docherty was playing really well until his injury. Royal isn’t good enough and needs to be replaced. Sess still has time to develop but he’s not had a regular run in the team. Reggie seems to have gone backwards and isn’t good at anything other than playacting. That’s a problem for us which the forwards can’t solve.

 

[Finney Is Back]

They’re taking some of the blame. Everyone to a man was poor yesterday, apart from Lloris. But it seems that Kane and Son as our two best players take the lions share of the blame whenever we don’t win. Kane is clearly in a goal drought. Son was in a purple patch until the last two games. They both had bad games against Brighton and Brentford. But the rest of the team isn’t up to scratch, which isn’t the forwards fault. Like it or not, the full backs are crucial to how we play. Docherty was playing really well until his injury. Royal isn’t good enough and needs to be replaced. Sess still has time to develop but he’s not had a regular run in the team. Reggie seems to have gone backwards and isn’t good at anything other than playacting. That’s a problem for us which the forwards can’t solve.

Lloris’ passing out was woeful…. So evident how much better Brentford’s keeper was with his feet.

 

[DubSpur]

Its hilarious reading this, two games where we have not had a shot on target and its the rwbs fault. And yet strangely quiet about the forwards.
Remember when arsenal lost teirney and some where saying that was them fudged, and yet........
If you want it, its there, we just don't want it enough.

Arsenal play a different system, 4231 and it's not expected that the RB is one of the main creative players. They have Odegaard playing as a 10 and he is one of the most creative players in the league.

We don't have anyone in midfield to create, PEH was terrible yesterday and his default move is to turn to his defence and pass backwards. Bentancur is much better at moving the ball forward but I wouldn't say he is really creative. So we need the WBs to provide a lot more attacking wise as is the idea behind Contes system. Romero was about the most creative yesterday with two really good balls into Kane just inside the box. One Kane was outmuscled and the other Kane got a shot off the was deflected for a corner.

Emerson is at best an average FB and doesn't belong as a WB. He can't pass and his crossing is really poor.

 

[Mulletperm]

I was getting ready to go out so couldn't read it and ive skimmed it.
Ive seen kulu get dug out more than Kane and son, although as i said, I'm skimming.
We can't have two games against teams the level of Brighton and brentford not have a shot on target and only blame the wbs, that won't get us anywhere.

I don't think people are blaming only the WBs. The blame starts with Conte's inability to adapt in the last two games when things were clearly not going to plan.

 

[harr1984]

They’re taking some of the blame. Everyone to a man was poor yesterday, apart from Lloris. But it seems that Kane and Son as our two best players take the lions share of the blame whenever we don’t win. Kane is clearly in a goal drought. Son was in a purple patch until the last two games. They both had bad games against Brighton and Brentford. But the rest of the team isn’t up to scratch, which isn’t the forwards fault. Like it or not, the full backs are crucial to how we play. Docherty was playing really well until his injury. Royal isn’t good enough and needs to be replaced. Sess still has time to develop but he’s not had a regular run in the team. Reggie seems to have gone backwards and isn’t good at anything other than playacting. That’s a problem for us which the forwards can’t solve.

Kane is our best player and our only world class one, some claim Son is but he is not world class. But let’s not pretend we dont have anyone else that contributes, Kulu has plenty of goal involvements, Doherty did too once he got going, Bentancur and Hojberg were looking good. So Kane and Son were on form when those players were playing well too, it works both ways. One of the points of being a world class player is that you drag the team over the line when the team is playing poorly. Prime example of that was Gerrard at Liverpool, he did that for years. That’s why many argue you aren’t a world class player if you don’t have trophies.

I love Kane, but all too often he looks world class when the going is good and the team is clicking but when the team is really struggling and needs him to demonstrate his world class credentials he blends in with the rest of them…..

 

[Finney Is Back]

Arsenal play a different system, 4231 and it's not expected that the RB is one of the main creative players. They have Odegaard playing as a 10 and he is one of the most creative players in the league.

We don't have anyone in midfield to create, PEH was terrible yesterday and his default move is to turn to his defence and pass backwards. Bentancur is much better at moving the ball forward but I wouldn't say he is really creative. So we need the WBs to provide a lot more attacking wise as is the idea behind Contes system. Romero was about the most creative yesterday with two really good balls into Kane just inside the box. One Kane was outmuscled and the other Kane got a shot off the was deflected for a corner.

Emerson is at best an average FB and doesn't belong as a WB. He can't pass and his crossing is really poor.

I thought PEH was our best player yesterday, did exactly the job he was supposed to do in winning the ball and passing it reasonably simply…. Think it was also him that played the nice pass to Royale that put him in behind).

 

[DubSpur]

I thought PEH was our best player yesterday, did exactly the job he was supposed to do in winning the ball and passing it reasonably simply…. Think it was also him a go played the nice pass to Royale that put him in behind).

I thought he was terrible, way too negative.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I thought he was terrible, way too negative.

You are looking at the symptom instead of the cause. The only way he could try to be positive was by beating his opponent one on one and that is suicidal for a central midfield player unless they are blessed with the incredible skill and strength of a player like Dembele.

If a player makes a good run Hojbjerg will typically find them (i.e. his ball into Royale). If you’re expecting PEH to play like (e.g) Eriksen then it’s never going to happen. However, equally, Eriksen isn’t going to be cutting out a pull back from the opposition on the edge of his six yard area when the opposition break as PEH did yesterday. There are a few players out there that can do both jobs but they cost very big money…. Brozovic at Inter is an example but I suspect his wage demands were likely too big for our budget.

The big problem with the team right now is that we immediately sacrifice the midfield by playing 3 centre backs. That means the wing backs have to be the creative players in the team. Ours aren’t good enough to do that,

 

[glasgowspur]

They’re taking some of the blame. Everyone to a man was poor yesterday, apart from Lloris. But it seems that Kane and Son as our two best players take the lions share of the blame whenever we don’t win. Kane is clearly in a goal drought. Son was in a purple patch until the last two games. They both had bad games against Brighton and Brentford. But the rest of the team isn’t up to scratch, which isn’t the forwards fault. Like it or not, the full backs are crucial to how we play. Docherty was playing really well until his injury. Royal isn’t good enough and needs to be replaced. Sess still has time to develop but he’s not had a regular run in the team. Reggie seems to have gone backwards and isn’t good at anything other than playacting. That’s a problem for us which the forwards can’t solve.

How is kane taking the blame, or son?
Its not their thread that is bumped after every game with criticism.
We've conceded 1 goal in two games, decent defence, and had no shots on target in those two games, thats poor attack, but the wbs are at fault?

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think people are blaming only the WBs. The blame starts with Conte's inability to adapt in the last two games when things were clearly not going to plan.

I think they all need to take the blame and the responsibility, this cannot be laid at one player or one position.
Displays like the last two games have been going on for too long to blame one player.

 

[Finney Is Back]

How is kane taking the blame, or son?
Its not their thread that is bumped after every game with criticism.
We've conceded 1 goal in two games, decent defence, and had no shots on target in those two games, thats poor attack, but the wbs are at fault?

We were basically playing 7 and a half defensive players yesterday and only 3 and a half attacking ones (i thought Sessegnon at least had the right balance between attacking and defending). I would hope we could keep clean sheets against both Brighton and Brentford when playing with such a skew between attack and defence, just as (e.g.) Burnley could keep a clean sheet against us when doing the same).

 

[glasgowspur]

Arsenal play a different system, 4231 and it's not expected that the RB is one of the main creative players. They have Odegaard playing as a 10 and he is one of the most creative players in the league.

We don't have anyone in midfield to create, PEH was terrible yesterday and his default move is to turn to his defence and pass backwards. Bentancur is much better at moving the ball forward but I wouldn't say he is really creative. So we need the WBs to provide a lot more attacking wise as is the idea behind Contes system. Romero was about the most creative yesterday with two really good balls into Kane just inside the box. One Kane was outmuscled and the other Kane got a shot off the was deflected for a corner.

Emerson is at best an average FB and doesn't belong as a WB. He can't pass and his crossing is really poor.

I honestly don't think the ability of the players our the tactics are the problem, it's this inability to make it count when needed, we just don't have it.
Arsenal lost two players and everyone was writing them off, they come out and win two of their hardest games.
We lose one player and can't beat two teams we reallly should.

 

[DubSpur]

You are looking at the symptom instead of the cause. The only way he could try to be positive was by beating his opponent one on one and that is suicidal for a central midfield player unless they are blessed with the incredible skill and strength of a player like Dembele.

If a player makes a good run Hojbjerg will typically find them (i.e. his ball into Royale). If you’re expecting PEH to play like (e.g) Eriksen then it’s never going to happen. However, equally, Eriksen isn’t going to be cutting out a pull back from the opposition on the edge of his six yard area when the opposition break as PEH did yesterday. There are a few players out there that can do both jobs but they cost very big money…. Brozovic at Inter is an example but I suspect his wage demands were likely too big for our budget.

The big problem with the team right now is that we immediately sacrifice the midfield by playing 3 centre backs. That means the wing backs have to be the creative players in the team. Ours aren’t good enough to do that,

I don't expect him to make passes like Eriksen, I'm not talking about creative passes, just progressive passing. There were plenty of times he turned away when a pass forward was on, Bentancur is much better at it, even Skipp was more progressive in his passing before his injury.

Agree on the WBs and that is our main issue at the moment and have said it a couple of million times at this stage.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't expect him to make passes like Eriksen, I'm not talking about creative passes, just progressive passing. There were plenty of times he turned away when a pass forward was on, Bentancur is much better at it, even Skipp was more progressive in his passing before his injury.

Agree on the WBs and that is our main issue at the moment and have said it a couple of million times at this stage.

I disagree. He played plenty of forward passes yesterday. Passes played in the middle are really dangerous if the opposition get the ball. When you have all of you team mates who are ahead of you, facing you, with a defender directly behind them, giving them no space at all, it is kind of suicidal to make the pass into them, as that can cause the most dangerous kind of turnover transition.

Our whole system relies on creativity from the full backs, the one who plays on our right hand side has no creativity whatsoever. Teams are stopping our counter attack by getting really tight on Kane and Kulu (and fouling them in our half if they happen to lose the contest) which is making us have to build more slowly, in which case they let the ball feed right to Royale, knowing he can’t do anything with it.

Because we do not operate anything resembling a press (not even a half press) we also don’t really get chances through quick transition. We therefore either score goals on the counter attack, or through slow build up with our wing backs being the ‘spare’ man that needs to create or score the goal directly or indirectly via movement and taking a player away. We don’t have a RWB (especially) who can do that which immediately halves the chance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I honestly don't think the ability of the players our the tactics are the problem, it's this inability to make it count when needed, we just don't have it.
Arsenal lost two players and everyone was writing them off, they come out and win two of their hardest games.
We lose one player and can't beat two teams we reallly should.

Arsenal lost two players but the opposition were aggressive against them and made no mistakes, hence why they beat arsenal in those 3 games
Against Chelsea and united arsenal were given gifts and took them as any half decent side should. Not every team will be as poor defensively as united and Chelsea

We took advantage of the mistakes in our big wins and as teams attacked more because we were ahead, that allowed more space for more attacks
Against Brighton and Brentford the only mistake was ours late in the Brighton game from 2 of our CBS. It cost us
our system needs to force the opposition into mistakes by playing with these automations and set plays. When that doesn’t happen there is nothing else. For that to work we need Edith to stretch the option (hence why both wing backs have to attack to stretch them) and you need support from CM for second balls and pressure

It’s no coincidence that losing our only experienced wing back is hurting us as suddenly we have no runners wide. Teams can remain compact and defend us easily. It then makes the midfield look poor as they have no out balls wide and Kane gets marked easily when he drops (yesterday son picked up the ball deeper than Kane more and more)

conte has to fix the width issue one way or another. We can’t have one side attacking and the other just sat balls deep as it means we don’t have players committed to the automations he needs.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Kane is our best player and our only world class one, some claim Son is but he is not world class. But let’s not pretend we dont have anyone else that contributes, Kulu has plenty of goal involvements, Doherty did too once he got going, Bentancur and Hojberg were looking good. So Kane and Son were on form when those players were playing well too, it works both ways. One of the points of being a world class player is that you drag the team over the line when the team is playing poorly. Prime example of that was Gerrard at Liverpool, he did that for years. That’s why many argue you aren’t a world class player if you don’t have trophies.

I love Kane, but all too often he looks world class when the going is good and the team is clicking but when the team is really struggling and needs him to demonstrate his world class credentials he blends in with the rest of them…..

We have other players that contribute, but for the most part, we are a two man goal threat. Everyone loses their brick when Kane and Son don’t score a goal and we lose. They’ve essentially got to carry us every week in terms of goals with no let up otherwise the same faces call them bottlers and not big game players even when the other 9 don’t turn up also. They need help. We need better options off the bench to keep them on their toes and we need better CM’s. I’ve never once disagreed that Kane needs to do more in one off games such as semi finals and finals because his contributions haven’t been good enough for spurs or England . Having said that, it hard to believe that we could sign better than Kane and Son, unless we get incredibly lucky with our recruitment. The only players in the league with more goals than the pair of them over the last few seasons play for Liverpool or City.

 

[Jurgen the German]

How is kane taking the blame, or son?
Its not their thread that is bumped after every game with criticism.
We've conceded 1 goal in two games, decent defence, and had no shots on target in those two games, thats poor attack, but the wbs are at fault?

Plenty of blame in the match thread, maybe you missed it. We’ve also created next to nothing in 2 games. We do rely on Kane and Son but do you expect them to create every single chance between the two of them and score 90% of our goals with almost no contribution from the other players?

 

[glasgowspur]

Plenty of blame in the match thread, maybe you missed it. We’ve also created next to nothing in 2 games. We do rely on Kane and Son but do you expect them to create every single chance between the two of them and score 90% of our goals with almost no contribution from the other players?

I'm not blaming kane and son, that would be wrong, just like in my honest opinion it is wrong to lump all the blame on the WBs.
We have these performances in us, for whatever reason, and it happens to often for it to be down to one particular person or position.