Demarai Gray

[Ginola99]

So you're saying that Gray is that special? Or that we should sign everyone?

I don't think Ginola (or anyone) is against signing players. Just that it really has to be someone special to come in and improve on our current lot.

Thats a tough one to try and answer honestly. I think he could be is the best i can do. He is very exciting and if we are definitely moving Townsend on it would have been a no-brainer for me. I think we could afford to gamble and spend a bit more often in the 3m-7m 17-20yr old bracket and loan them out for experience. Pick up the Deli Alli's, the Charlton kids etc..

 

[braineclipse]

Thats a tough one to try and answer honestly. I think he could be is the best i can do. He is very exciting and if we are definitely moving Townsend on it would have been a no-brainer for me. I think we could afford to gamble and spend a bit more often in the 3m-7m 17-20yr old bracket and loan them out for experience. Pick up the Deli Alli's, the Charlton kids etc..

Well we did pick up Dele Alli...

If you think we should have signed him to send him out on loan anyway what does it matter if we moved Townsend on or not?

Seems to me that our strategy in terms of buying players to send them out on loan has changed somewhat. We seem more determined to wait for players to be good enough to have a path into our first team squad before signing them, or recruit them earlier where they get some time in our academy/development squad before sending them out on loan. I think that might be sensible, though there should have course be exceptions.

Part of the gamble we have to take is gambling on when to give these young players regular first team football for us. Having too many players competing for that doesn't strike me as ideal.

 

[Ginola99]

I said Delli Alli's, there are more kids out there like him..

If we are using Gray as an example then no I would not have loaned him out. I think he is ready now (to have an impact) and made a decent choice of a club in Leicester (if wasn't going to sign for us).

 

[Gutter Boy]

Thats a tough one to try and answer honestly. I think he could be is the best i can do. He is very exciting and if we are definitely moving Townsend on it would have been a no-brainer for me. I think we could afford to gamble and spend a bit more often in the 3m-7m 17-20yr old bracket and loan them out for experience. Pick up the Deli Alli's, the Charlton kids etc..

Why do that if they aren't as good as the ones we are growing ourselves (e.g. Pritchard, Oduwa, Miller as WFs)?

The whole point of the academy is that it largely negates having to speculate on others' products.

 

[Ginola99]

Why do that if they aren't as good as the ones we are growing ourselves (e.g. Pritchard, Oduwa, Miller as WFs)?

The whole point of the academy is that it largely negates having to speculate on others' products.

Pritchard I like, Oduwa could be good if he learns to be more effective and not a show pony... Anyway if they are not as good then dont buy them obviously.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Why do that if they aren't as good as the ones we are growing ourselves (e.g. Pritchard, Oduwa, Miller as WFs)?

The whole point of the academy is that it largely negates having to speculate on others' products.

Gray is well ahead of Oduwa and Miller, although probably not quite at Pritchard's level yet.

 

[braineclipse]

I said Delli Alli's, there are more kids out there like him..

If we are using Gray as an example then no I would not have loaned him out. I think he is ready now (to have an impact) and made a decent choice of a club in Leicester (if wasn't going to sign for us).

There might be more kids out there like him, I'm guessing not many though. Point being that the club did really well at identifying him as one we should go for. Points towards us knowing what we're doing and our decision not to go for Gray has been made by the same people, no?

I don't think we could give enough games to all of Gray, Son, Chadli, Onomah, Pritchard etc even if we ship out Townsend. Would have to come in to replace Pritchard and step ahead of some of our other talented youngsters. If you really think he's good enough to warrant that fair enough, I don't know.

Gray is well ahead of Oduwa and Miller, although probably not quite at Pritchard's level yet.

If he's not at Pritchard's level, and I assume well behind Son and Clinton too then(?) I think the club has made the right decision not to make a move for him (at this time).

 

[Ginola99]

There might be more kids out there like him, I'm guessing not many though. Point being that the club did really well at identifying him as one we should go for. Points towards us knowing what we're doing and our decision not to go for Gray has been made by the same people, no?

I don't think we could give enough games to all of Gray, Son, Chadli, Onomah, Pritchard etc even if we ship out Townsend. Would have to come in to replace Pritchard and step ahead of some of our other talented youngsters. If you really think he's good enough to warrant that fair enough, I don't know.



If he's not at Pritchard's level, and I assume well behind Son and Clinton too then(?) I think the club has made the right decision not to make a move for him (at this time).

Ali was very well known and has been for a few years. Anyone that makes their debut at 16 will be, and monitored by all the top clubs. Identifying him was good, getting him before other clubs was the impressive part.

Personally I am not too worried about 'being fair' and giving everyone enough game time, I only care about playing the best/most on form players, if he can do that over 38 games and others sit on the side lines so be it. Ali is an example of that, he wasn't expected to make the 1st team straight away but came in, impressed, was given a chance and took his opportunity. If he is better than Son/Chadli/Carroll/Onomah etc and they get the hump from not playing then tough.

Hands up that I have a softspot for pacy/skillfull wingers/forwards..

 

[braineclipse]

Ali was very well known and has been for a few years. Anyone that makes their debut at 16 will be, and monitored by all the top clubs. Identifying him was good, getting him before other clubs was the impressive part.

Personally I am not too worried about 'being fair' and giving everyone enough game time, I only care about playing the best/most on form players, if he can do that over 38 games and others sit on the side lines so be it. Ali is an example of that, he wasn't expected to make the 1st team straight away but came in, impressed, was given a chance and took his opportunity. If he is better than Son/Chadli/Carroll/Onomah etc and they get the hump from not playing then tough.

Hands up that I have a softspot for pacy/skillfull wingers/forwards..

No. Identifying Alli as the target (among many) to go for was impressive. Not talking about discovering as in some scout in a trench coat finding a hidden gem somewhere. But identifying Alli as good enough to make the step up now and the right signing for us now was impressive. Doing so without mass signing young players makes it even more impressive.

Not too worried about being fair is... I suppose... fair enough. But I don't think that's a good attitude. Seems like the kind of attitude Chelsea (and to some extent City) display with their hoarding of talented young player without ever actually developing anyone into a top player. Throw enough spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks kind of approach that seems to let teams down again and again.

The kind of trust being shown in Alli has (imo) been hugely important to his development. He's come in and Pochettino has done his thing, showing these young players that they will get game time, they will get a chance and they will get more than one. That's what the players in our academy and development squad is watching, and I think it's hugely important for us as a club to be "fair" (for a lack of a better word). Not for the sake of fairness, but for the sake of both our young players currently behind the first team, but also for those young players breaking into the first team. Liverpool fans know wish they had gone for Alli. I'm not so sure they would have seen the same impact though. He could easily have been another Markovic for them. Not that Alli isn't very talented, but that's not enough. The mix between Alli and Poch has been great. And part of that is that it seems to me that Alli was signed with a plan for a path into the first team for him. He might not have succeeded straight away, but there would still have been a plan for him.

That plan wouldn't exist if we signed too many players (imo).

 

[Ginola99]

No. Identifying Alli as the target (among many) to go for was impressive. Not talking about discovering as in some scout in a trench coat finding a hidden gem somewhere. But identifying Alli as good enough to make the step up now and the right signing for us now was impressive. Doing so without mass signing young players makes it even more impressive.

Not too worried about being fair is... I suppose... fair enough. But I don't think that's a good attitude. Seems like the kind of attitude Chelsea (and to some extent City) display with their hoarding of talented young player without ever actually developing anyone into a top player. Throw enough spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks kind of approach that seems to let teams down again and again.

The kind of trust being shown in Alli has (imo) been hugely important to his development. He's come in and Pochettino has done his thing, showing these young players that they will get game time, they will get a chance and they will get more than one. That's what the players in our academy and development squad is watching, and I think it's hugely important for us as a club to be "fair" (for a lack of a better word). Not for the sake of fairness, but for the sake of both our young players currently behind the first team, but also for those young players breaking into the first team. Liverpool fans know wish they had gone for Alli. I'm not so sure they would have seen the same impact though. He could easily have been another Markovic for them. Not that Alli isn't very talented, but that's not enough. The mix between Alli and Poch has been great. And part of that is that it seems to me that Alli was signed with a plan for a path into the first team for him. He might not have succeeded straight away, but there would still have been a plan for him.

That plan wouldn't exist if we signed too many players (imo).

I think you are giving the club/management team too much credit. I don't believe he was identified to go straight into the team. The fact that we bought him and loaned him straight back supports that. We could have done with him last season, I dont believe the club knew he needed another 5 months in Lg1 and would then be ready. His ability/attitude has driven his progress.

I wouldn't want us to quite go the extremes of Chelsea/City and the Italian clubs and have 20+ players loaned out. However, I do think right now we have the right environment to develop potential better than 99% of other clubs. I think a number of young players that have gone through the Chelsea system would have been better developed with us and gone on to become first team players.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you are giving the club/management team too much credit. I don't believe he was identified to go straight into the team. The fact that we bought him and loaned him straight back supports that. We could have done with him last season, I dont believe the club knew he needed another 5 months in Lg1 and would then be ready. His ability/attitude has driven his progress.

I wouldn't want us to quite go the extremes of Chelsea/City and the Italian clubs and have 20+ players loaned out. However, I do think right now we have the right environment to develop potential better than 99% of other clubs. I think a number of young players that have gone through the Chelsea system would have been better developed with us and gone on to become first team players.

Obviously to go straight into the team in the summer... That was also the deal that could be made with Mk Dons that obviously wanted to keep him as he was vital for their promotion push.

I think the club is currently striking a very nice balance with the number of players in the first team and our youth recruitment. Remember we have one of the youngest teams/squads in any of the top leagues in Europe. If we manage to keep hold of our better young players currently first choice the competition for first team football will only get tougher in the coming years.

For me one of the things that sets us apart from City and Chelsea in terms of player development under Pochettino is how we bring players into the first team. I genuinely think a bloated development squad and/or first team is a hindrance to that.