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Dele Alli

I agree with them switching
Lo Celso plays that creative role for Argentina and did it before he joined
I don’t get dele hugging the byline on the left with no left foot (he isn’t a winger) or Lo Celso on the right, with no right foot.
It just didn’t seem either was gonna affect the game that way
What I think we need to do is try Lo Celso in that 10 role with 3 in front or alongside him (Kane, son and one other)
That way we can still have 2 CMs behind and also let the full backs push up more

I worry that he doesn't do enough in the #10 role either.

I think we have to give the 4-3-3 a go with Hojbjerg deepest and Lo Celso/Ndombele either side - still not convinced that will work...
or we go to 4-2-3-1 and pick one of them as a deep CM alongside Hojbjerg.
Then we have Son / Dele / 1 other behind Kane
 
I'm not Dele's biggest fan but I think Santo's gameplan doesn't play to his strengths. At least, he's willing to put in the effort and you can see he's trying hard to fit in - something that he was apparently reluctant to do under the previous manager. Let's look at it differently: who shines in such a system? Central defenders, plus the one or two guys who protect(s) them. Anyone who's supposed to contribute to our attacking play one way or another has come off even worse than they did under Mourinho.

When you think about Spurs players who started the season well, you're thinking Dier, Sanchez, Skipp, Hojbjerg and possibly Lloris. Son, Reguillon, Kane, Bergwijn, Dele, Moura... meh.

Sure, he was at fault for their first goal but a) he made his name playing almost as a second striker so he probably won't turn into the new Roy Keane overnight and b) even without that mistake, they would've won the game. Regardless of the squads, Tuchel is vastly superior to Santo as a manager and he was clever enough to make the necessary changes when they were needed. They were all over us as soon as the second half started so I don't think you can blame Dele for the result.
 
Depends how one sees a luxury player. Traditionally one that doesn't work hard, but has great skill and ability. Dele is not that.

To me just as importantly in terms of "luxury players", though far from the traditional use of the word. The players that work hard offer so very little in terms of quality involvements on the ball to help buildup play, counter attacking or playing through pressure.

Take the second Chelsea goal. Lo Celso lost the ball trying to start a counter attack. Just clearing the ball would be easy, literally any PL player should be able to boot it out for a throw. But the more players do that, or play the safe backwards pass, the more responsibility is put on others to take those risks to make positive moves happen. The more risky moves will they have to try because others will only play it safe.

Or when our centre backs move the ball with no pace, no purpose, when our buildup play stinks. No risk, but also no progress and almost certainly no positive moves getting started.

There's a "luxury" in playing like that. Kane will sort it out. Son will find a way to get in behind. Moura will run past four players. Ndombele will do a spin and a twist and find the pass through the lines. Just do your job, don't risk losing it, work hard. But too many players do that, be luxury players in that way and we end up a stale, scoring one goal from open play in five games, low xG, bound to start dropping unnecessary points kind of team.

This might be controversial, but I'm looking at a lot of our players as luxury players in that regard. Alli is perhaps one, but for me he's one that has had to reign in his risk taking in deep areas to be able to play that role so let's give him a couple of months to adjust. Dier, Sanchez though. Some excuses because of age and less experience, but Tanganga, Skipp, Emerson. At times even Hojbjerg, though he's better than most. Reguilon usually tries at least.

Pochettino used to say we have to be brave, in possession, with the ball. Risk losing it to make something happen. Not being brave in that way is being a luxury player. Because you just leave it to others to do what you could have done and make their jobs harder in the process. Different way, but the same effect as a traditional luxury player not tracking back. Leave others to do the job you won't even try to do and make their job harder.
 
He does work hard, he also offers us nothing going forward at the moment and hasn’t for a while. He’s essentially an even slower James Milner.

Basically Sissoko, without the pace... Strange that none of the Frenchman's usual consistent critics seem happy with this state of affairs, don't you think?
 
mate...Dele is not a luxury right now, he is our hardest-working player...

Works very hard but is not a midfielder - his passing isnt good enough as its just not his game. And he's also not a defensive player either

He needs to play as a no 10 where he can play off the cuff or not at all. He's at his best when he plays instinctively. Therefore if we're not playing 4-2-3-1 he shouldnt be playing, and given we seem o be aiming for 4-3-3, I'd sell him

He won't achieve his potential in midfield in a 4-3-3
 
"He's a runner". If he can use that running like he did against Wolves when he won the penalty. Like he showed at other times in that game and iirc against Watford. Then I think he can be effective in this role.

Worth remembering that he's only played four games on this role in this system. Two of those were against City and Chelsea, games where you'd expect limited attacking output from a midfielder in this system.

I think he'll be more of an attacking threat in other games. Like he was against Wolves at times. Requires better buildup play from the team, and Alli won't do all that much to help in that regard. So question is if the rest of the team can do better to allow him to do his thing.
 
Works very hard but is not a midfielder - his passing isnt good enough as its just not his game. And he's also not a defensive player either

He needs to play as a no 10 where he can play off the cuff or not at all. He's at his best when he plays instinctively. Therefore if we're not playing 4-2-3-1 he shouldnt be playing, and given we seem o be aiming for 4-3-3, I'd sell him

He won't achieve his potential in midfield in a 4-3-3

Have to agree with this, Alli was great for us but for quite a while now ( a couple of seasons at least) he has shown very little of the player he was. I know he has a lot of support from some fans ( and i understand why that is) but in truth he has been nowhere near the player he was. Its a shame because as we all know he was special but its been a LONG time since he was, his supporters blame managers ( he was poor under the end of Poch as well) but his decline is NOT wholly done to Jose ( as some like to think) he has to accept his attitude has been wrong and on top of that our game does not really suit his abilitys anymore.

I hope he proves me and others wrong but his decline over the last few years shows that may be unlikely.
 
Have to agree with this, Alli was great for us but for quite a while now ( a couple of seasons at least) he has shown very little of the player he was. I know he has a lot of support from some fans ( and i understand why that is) but in truth he has been nowhere near the player he was. Its a shame because as we all know he was special but its been a LONG time since he was, his supporters blame managers ( he was poor under the end of Poch as well) but his decline is NOT wholly done to Jose ( as some like to think) he has to accept his attitude has been wrong and on top of that our game does not really suit his abilitys anymore.

I hope he proves me and others wrong but his decline over the last few years shows that may be unlikely.
I agree with your summary of the post. I think he's showing real signs of turning things around. Given his attributes (strong and weak), I think it's only natural that a change to a new role in a new system will take time.

He's been working hard. He's not really causing many problems with unnecessary risk in deeper areas. He's showing up in good attacking areas at times at least when game conditions are good for that.

4 games into this new role in a new system, how much more could he realistically have been asked to do?
 
A lot if the time in recent seasons he has been played in midfield due to system change/necessity, he does an average job there. Needs to play up top off the striker that's where he excelled. Only ways are either in a 4231 or 352/532
 
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I agree with your summary of the post. I think he's showing real signs of turning things around. Given his attributes (strong and weak), I think it's only natural that a change to a new role in a new system will take time.

He's been working hard. He's not really causing many problems with unnecessary risk in deeper areas. He's showing up in good attacking areas at times at least when game conditions are good for that.

4 games into this new role in a new system, how much more could he realistically have been asked to do?

Sorry Brian i really do not see any sign of that at all, i think we are trying to fit him into a team that really does not suit his abilitys and i am not sure it is going to work.Like i say this has been going on since the end of Pochs time here so it not just a tempoary issue. Like i say i hope i am wrong but i just think we are/would be better off moving on.
 
Sorry Brian i really do not see any sign of that at all, i think we are trying to fit him into a team that really does not suit his abilitys and i am not sure it is going to work.Like i say this has been going on since the end of Pochs time here so it not just a tempoary issue. Like i say i hope i am wrong but i just think we are/would be better off moving on.

Agree with you. I just dont think he has the abilities to play midfield. Works hard yes, but doesnt retain the ball well enough
 
Sorry Brian i really do not see any sign of that at all, i think we are trying to fit him into a team that really does not suit his abilitys and i am not sure it is going to work.Like i say this has been going on since the end of Pochs time here so it not just a tempoary issue. Like i say i hope i am wrong but i just think we are/would be better off moving on.

Isn't it ironic that we could have sold two of the most currently underwhelming players - Dele and Dier - during their brief supernova period for easily more than a 100 million - which would have provided Poch with enough funds to reinvest into a squad revamp. Unfortunately, we did not have the foresight to understand that their green patch was only temporary and related to a specific formation.... Not to mention Levy's chip on his shoulder not to be seen as a "selling club" and therefore completely unable to move on players at their peak value unless forced to do so.
 
Isn't it ironic that we could have sold two of the most currently underwhelming players - Dele and Dier - during their brief supernova period for easily more than a 100 million - which would have provided Poch with enough funds to reinvest into a squad revamp. Unfortunately, we did not have the foresight to understand that their green patch was only temporary and related to a specific formation.... Not to mention Levy's chip on his shoulder not to be seen as a "selling club" and therefore completely unable to move on players at their peak value unless forced to do so.

I am not sure i agree with the selling Dier bit, he was under performing for sure but he had a couple of injurys and on top of that had illness ( twice i believe) and recovering from that takes time for some individuals and it showed. This season he seems to be back and has so far been one of our best players. Hard to tell if he can carry that forward i guess we will see, as for Alli we have tried to see if he can recover his form but we have tried him in a couple of posistions ( so far) and i have not seen any signs that he is returning to the player he was.
 
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