Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Benny_Lad]

He cost an extra £20m than Bergwein and doesn’t play the same position
Oh and we were talking summer purchases

I gave a fair explanation of the position situation. Maybe you just chose to discard it and plainly look at where they’ve operated post transfers (ps Bergwijn basically lined up in the 10 role against Sheff Utd - highlighting even more we could have gone Bruno instead). My point was had we pushed through with Bruno in the summer we might not have signed Bergwijn in January. When we were at our best the players behind Kane all interchanged so I wouldn’t rush to label them to a fixed position.

Not sure the point of the money reference - my point was that a Bruno transfer could have resulted in no Bergwijn transfer.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Eriksen could operate anywhere in that front three behind Kane and influence games. I think Fernandes is the same and will possibly eclipse Eriksen as a player.

Exactly my point. I’ve seen him all across those positions for Portugal. Hence my point had we got him prior to Bergwijn - it would have plugged any perceived gap.

 

[MKSpur]

If that is true (and I have heard differently) it is an even greater indictment of how things are run IMO.

So I double checked and the 35m quite was a general statement made post the United transfer, but then I found this:
“It was 'impossible' to retain Bruno Fernandes, but we did it. We prepared for his sale by putting a fair price on him, and we had bids, but the only serious offer was from Tottenham and that was €45 million (£40m/$50m) plus another €20m (£18m/$22m) in bonuses for winning the Premier League and the Champions League.
So maybe it was an attempt to do both on those terms and Lo Celso’s loan was to defer the payment to enable both, but then in Jan a ‘genuine’ offer of 65 was way out of a league so we turned to Bergwijn and Gedson instead. I’m probably kidding myself as I’d really sunk all my hopes that the austerity pre and during stadium build would be rewarded with a statement of intent. Not sure where the Dybala deal figured in the Lo Celso / Fernandes strategy either, maybe it was any one from 3!

 

[thfcsteff]

Exactly my point. I’ve seen him all across those positions for Portugal. Hence my point had we got him prior to Bergwijn - it would have plugged any perceived gap.

I wanted him in the summer. I wanted him AND LoCelso AND Ndombele, and felt we were going to get them all.

I don't know if the Dybala pursuit got in the way (it was real and they thought it was on). Again, for a club who had just been CL finalists entering their first full season in the best stadium in club football, I think some speculation would've been acceptable.

People ask about numbers (indeed Poch always wanted a tight squad) but let's say we HAD signed
Ndombele
Fernandes
LoCelso
Dybala

Patently it would've been lop-sided, and patently we'd have been wanting to find a Fabinho like player (what a signing by Klopp BTW, fantastic player).
But we would obviously not have signed Fernandes or Bergwijn in the Jan window, we'd have seen one of Lucas, Lamela or Dele not remain (maybe two of them), we'd have genuine star talent in key attacking positions and we'd have enough creativity to maintain a progressive style through all but the very worst injury crisis.

I would speculate that to do the above would've cost us an extra 80 million BEFORE selling in Jan. Go big or go home?

The scenario would not have played out anyway as Dybala did not get here. And even if we stuck to the window we had in the summer (which obviously we did) then why were we not in for Fernandes when Jan 1st arrived? It is down to one of two things; Mourinho did not want him or the board figured they'd rather get two bodies for the price of one. The idea that a top club would only have one top player per position is laughable. Look at Liverpool; last June they left a bloke who scored twice to knock out Barca in the semi and were able to bring him on for a half-fit Firmino. Anyone who says there was no room for Fernandes and LoCelso in the same squad is IMO talking gonad*s.

 

[Benny_Lad]

So I double checked and the 35m quite was a general statement made post the United transfer, but then I found this:
“It was 'impossible' to retain Bruno Fernandes, but we did it. We prepared for his sale by putting a fair price on him, and we had bids, but the only serious offer was from Tottenham and that was €45 million (£40m/$50m) plus another €20m (£18m/$22m) in bonuses for winning the Premier League and the Champions League.
So maybe it was an attempt to do both on those terms and Lo Celso’s loan was to defer the payment to enable both, but then in Jan a ‘genuine’ offer of 65 was way out of a league so we turned to Bergwijn and Gedson instead. I’m probably kidding myself as I’d really sunk all my hopes that the austerity pre and during stadium build would be rewarded with a statement of intent. Not sure where the Dybala deal figured in the Lo Celso / Fernandes strategy either, maybe it was any one from 3!

I seem to remember we had a rep in Lisbon in the final days of the Summer window while trying to sell Eriksen. Had the correct Eriksen bid come in, I think we’d have got Bruno there and then.

 

[thfcsteff]

I seem to remember we had a rep in Lisbon in the final days of the Summer window while trying to sell Eriksen. Had the correct Eriksen bid come in, I think we’d have got Bruno there and then.

I agree and will always believe we needed to buy him anyway as Eriksen had made clear he would not be forced anywhere (he was always consistent with that sentiment).

 

[Benny_Lad]

I wanted him in the summer. I wanted him AND LoCelso AND Ndombele, and felt we were going to get them all.

I don't know if the Dybala pursuit got in the way (it was real and they thought it was on). Again, for a club who had just been CL finalists entering their first full season in the best stadium in club football, I think some speculation would've been acceptable.

People ask about numbers (indeed Poch always wanted a tight squad) but let's say we HAD signed
Ndombele
Fernandes
LoCelso
Dybala

Patently it would've been lop-sided, and patently we'd have been wanting to find a Fabinho like player (what a signing by Klopp BTW, fantastic player).
But we would obviously not have signed Fernandes or Bergwijn in the Jan window, we'd have seen one of Lucas, Lamela or Dele not remain (maybe two of them), we'd have genuine star talent in key attacking positions and we'd have enough creativity to maintain a progressive style through all but the very worst injury crisis.

I would speculate that to do the above would've cost us an extra 80 million BEFORE selling in Jan. Go big or go home?

The scenario would not have played out anyway as Dybala did not get here. And even if we stuck to the window we had in the summer (which obviously we did) then why were we not in for Fernandes when Jan 1st arrived? It is down to one of two things; Mourinho did not want him or the board figured they'd rather get two bodies for the price of one. The idea that a top club would only have one top player per position is laughable. Look at Liverpool; last June they left a bloke who scored twice to knock out Barca in the semi and were able to bring him on for a half-fit Firmino. Anyone who says there was no room for Fernandes and LoCelso in the same squad is IMO talking gonad*s.

For me, GLC was a signing for the midfield. Bruno and Dybala were pursuits for the AM areas, which then fell into Bergwijn in Jan.

What annoys me a tad is that we spent 20 on Bergwijn. 20 on Sessegnon. 10 on Clarke. 50m there....

I reiterate tho - I’m not anti Stevie. I hope he builds on a positive start.

 

[MKSpur]

I seem to remember we had a rep in Lisbon in the final days of the Summer window while trying to sell Eriksen. Had the correct Eriksen bid come in, I think we’d have got Bruno there and then.

Very plausible and would have been great move considering we didn’t really have Eriksen this season, so very frustrating if true. When you think about what Coutinho fetched and has since delivered, then consider Hazard with a YEAR left went for we really did miss out with Eriksen.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I gave a fair explanation of the position situation. Maybe you just chose to discard it and plainly look at where they’ve operated post transfers (ps Bergwijn basically lined up in the 10 role against Sheff Utd - highlighting even more we could have gone Bruno instead). My point was had we pushed through with Bruno in the summer we might not have signed Bergwijn in January. When we were at our best the players behind Kane all interchanged so I wouldn’t rush to label them to a fixed position.

Not sure the point of the money reference - my point was that a Bruno transfer could have resulted in no Bergwijn transfer.

Bruno’s deal is double the money and more
So basically what we’re paying for NDombele
And IMO we signed Lo Celso to play the Fernandes position. He is playing deeper because the player we signed to play deeper has so far been too lazy

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Very plausible and would have been great move considering we didn’t really have Eriksen this season, so very frustrating if true. When you think about what Coutinho fetched and has since delivered, then consider Hazard with a YEAR left went for we really did miss out with Eriksen.

One of them though is a winner with a real medal haul
The other is an over rated player who did really well at pool and Barca went mental for (not the first time)
Erisken is IMO as good as them without the drive of a hazard.

 

[Legohamster]

For me, GLC was a signing for the midfield. Bruno and Dybala were pursuits for the AM areas, which then fell into Bergwijn in Jan.

What annoys me a tad is that we spent 20 on Bergwijn. 20 on Sessegnon. 10 on Clarke. 50m there....

I reiterate tho - I’m not anti Stevie. I hope he builds on a positive start.

I am not writing him off, but Bergwijn is a level below those 2 and whilst his goals suggest a positive start his all round play is poor -

Clarke just looks like a Bung

 

[Benny_Lad]

I am not writing him off, but Bergwijn is a level below those 2 and whilst his goals suggest a positive start his all round play is poor -

Clarke just looks like a Bung

There are extended highlights on YT of Bergwijn vs England from a year or 2 ago. It's one of those vids with ALL of the player touches rather than the best bits. Its worth a watch - he looks decent. I wonder how much its affected him coming into a fairly disjointed defensive team. I'm sure he'd be flourishing a little more if he'd arrived during a time where we were playing better football. For example, its not like Dele, Son or Moura are shining, but we know they can do better.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Bruno’s deal is double the money and more
So basically what we’re paying for NDombele
And IMO we signed Lo Celso to play the Fernandes position. He is playing deeper because the player we signed to play deeper has so far been too lazy

The last bit is interesting. I thought at Betis he looked a lot higher/more of a goal threat. Since he's come here he's looked more of a CM (but like you say that might be through default). He definitely looks like has the tools to play 10 or even right of the 3.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The last bit is interesting. I thought at Betis he looked a lot higher/more of a goal threat. Since he's come here he's looked more of a CM (but like you say that might be through default). He definitely looks like has the tools to play 10 or even right of the 3.

He played as a 10 at Betis when I saw him (2 or 3 games maybe max)
And I didn’t notice him but he would the get an assist or a goal

 

[billyiddo]

He played as a 10 at Betis when I saw him (2 or 3 games maybe max)
And I didn’t notice him but he would the get an assist or a goal

Lo Celso wasn't exclusively used as a 10 for Betis and whoscored have him down as playing 18 games in CM vs 13 in AM which would tie in with the various videos i saw prior to us signing him which showed him mostly playing in a deeper role, driving forward with the ball

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Lo Celso wasn't exclusively used as a 10 for Betis and whoscored have him down as playing 18 games in CM vs 13 in AM which would tie in with the various videos i saw prior to us signing him which showed him mostly playing in a deeper role, driving forward with the ball

That’s because they were the team
Normally playing deeper
Look at who they replaced him with... Fekir

 

[Modric THFC]

Levy has done great things away from the football side of the club. But name another currently successful football club where the CEO is in charge of making football decisions. Every successful team right now has a DOF, a full analytics team, a scouting department.

Spurs have Levy deciding to appoint Mourinho because she's always wanted to. And he's a big name to keep us in the limelight.

Instead of a scouting department we are now linked to every Jorge Mendes player. Mended client Gedson wasn't getting in the Benefica. So he ends up on Spurs on loan for 2 seasons with a 50m future fee. This isn't down to the scouting department. This would never happen at Liverpool or City. They would never develop another clubs player for free.

 

[Finney Is Back]

There are extended highlights on YT of Bergwijn vs England from a year or 2 ago. It's one of those vids with ALL of the player touches rather than the best bits. Its worth a watch - he looks decent. I wonder how much its affected him coming into a fairly disjointed defensive team. I'm sure he'd be flourishing a little more if he'd arrived during a time where we were playing better football. For example, its not like Dele, Son or Moura are shining, but we know they can do better.

I think Bergwijn has been our most consistently good player since he arrived in January.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Levy has done great things away from the football side of the club. But name another currently successful football club where the CEO is in charge of making football decisions. Every successful team right now has a DOF, a full analytics team, a scouting department.

Spurs have Levy deciding to appoint Mourinho because she's always wanted to. And he's a big name to keep us in the limelight.

Instead of a scouting department we are now linked to every Jorge Mendes player. Mended client Gedson wasn't getting in the Benefica. So he ends up on Spurs on loan for 2 seasons with a 50m future fee. This isn't down to the scouting department. This would never happen at Liverpool or City. They would never develop another clubs player for free.

Daniela Levy?!?

 

[Bishop]

There are extended highlights on YT of Bergwijn vs England from a year or 2 ago. It's one of those vids with ALL of the player touches rather than the best bits. Its worth a watch - he looks decent. I wonder how much its affected him coming into a fairly disjointed defensive team. I'm sure he'd be flourishing a little more if he'd arrived during a time where we were playing better football. For example, its not like Dele, Son or Moura are shining, but we know they can do better.

If we had midfielders who could accurately pass early and into space he would be devastating but alas we play Winks and fudging Sissoko.