Daniel Levy - Chairman

[BrainOfLevy]

Speaking of hypothetical, those last two years could really have gone in a very different direction.

It's clear Levy admired Mourinho and truly thought he could do the business. I can't help but daydream about how different these last two years could have been, what could have happened if there'd been no covid, finances weren't suddenly restricted quite as much and there'd been fans in the stadiums to exert influence on the team and display opinion about playing style.

Yes - and this is where it comes to an interesting part of the debate.

There is one aspect which is what I am saying around I just want to win things now, I don't want to wait, I think we need someone with deeper pockets willing to invest. Can't blame ENIC for not being those people, all I'm saying is that I'd rather someone different if that was possible.

But there's a seperate point that I think you can blame them for - the football decisions. How much of the last two years happened because Levy's opinion of Mourinho as a miracle worker was just too engrained? How much of a contributing factor in the trust in Poch breaking down on Levy's end was the fact that Mourinho was available? Through this lens, it is a clear mistake because the buck stops with them. It was a crucial decision which very clearly did not work.

Can we argue Levy has earned the right to make a few mistakes? Sure. We can argue that. But I am going to argue the buck stops with him, and he needs to get the decisions right on the football side. I praised him to the hilt for getting alignment around the club and picking Poch, and seemingly finally committing to backing a manager that was perfectly aligned with his strategy. And that means he gets the criticism when such an important decision goes so wrong that we lose 2 years. This is a different argument to the one about preferring an owner with deeper pockets, which I accept is not fair to blame them for not being. But I think he absolutely deserves criticism for getting a huge call very wrong, and this is why trust in him on the football side of things plummeted for me.

 

[billyiddo]

I know - I want someone with money! At least willing to invest more than what ENIC are. Quite open about that now.

More than 4th/3rd highest net in the league?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

More than 4th/3rd highest net in the league?

I want whatever will make us successful. If ENIC consistently spend 3rd highest net in the league, I'll assume we'll probably get a few trophies out of it.

Don't know how else to say it. I massively respect the job they have done. I am thankful for their approach securing us for the long term. I am sceptical of their decision making on the football side. But overall I just want to win. I don't care if it is with them or without them, I just want to start winning things. If my fears were unfounded and we end up spending at a level that really allows us to compete, I will be delighted. If they sell up and we get new owners that we win with, I will also be delighted.

This is really just a debate around how patient people are willing to be with them, how thankful we should be for what they have done, and whether with the new stadium we are now more likely to compete. I am totally cool with the idea we are now more likely to compete, but I am sceptical of their football decision making and honestly there is a sense here that success with them is more important to people than the club succeeding regardless. I fully appreciate all the constraints and challenges they have faced. I fully appreciate me demanding owners with more money makes me an entitled fan...I am just saying I don't care! I want to win! I don't care how we do it! I want to see our owners making good decisions to the best of their ability and I want to have the sense they really want us to win. If that's ENIC, great. But I just want to win.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Well, we were 90 minutes away from winning the biggest prize of all. Without (relatively) lots and lots of money being thrown at it. I'd like a few more of our players to put in big performances in big matches. Even this last year we could pinpoint only three matches where, had we won rather than lost, we'd be in a FAR healthier position and be feeling much better about things.

Yes - and this is where it comes to an interesting part of the debate.

There is one aspect which is what I am saying around I just want to win things now, I don't want to wait, I think we need someone with deeper pockets willing to invest. Can't blame ENIC for not being those people, all I'm saying is that I'd rather someone different if that was possible.

But there's a seperate point that I think you can blame them for - the football decisions. How much of the last two years happened because Levy's opinion of Mourinho as a miracle worker was just too engrained? How much of a contributing factor in the trust in Poch breaking down on Levy's end was the fact that Mourinho was available? Through this lens, it is a clear mistake because the buck stops with them. It was a crucial decision which very clearly did not work.

Can we argue Levy has earned the right to make a few mistakes? Sure. We can argue that. But I am going to argue the buck stops with him, and he needs to get the decisions right on the football side. I praised him to the hilt for getting alignment around the club and picking Poch, and seemingly finally committing to backing a manager that was perfectly aligned with his strategy. And that means he gets the criticism when such an important decision goes so wrong that we lose 2 years. This is a different argument to the one about preferring an owner with deeper pockets, which I accept is not fair to blame them for not being. But I think he absolutely deserves criticism for getting a huge call very wrong, and this is why trust in him on the football side of things plummeted for me.

I'm almost onboard with a lot of what you say.
But, casting my mind back to the end of Poch's tenure, I'd wanted him to be given more time. But as the games continued and the malaise seemed so deep set I came round to thinking that he, Poch, did not have it within him, for whatever reason, to turn things around. So the football decision to get rid of him seemed right, though awfully emotional and painful.
And the decision to hire Jose, wasn't clearly wrong - despite some vocal opinion that it was. Just because it turned out poorly, doesn't mean that it was the wrong decision. You can make the right decision but still have a poor outcome, and must then be careful not to conflate the two.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Like...slightly ridiculous hypothetical question but if you could be guaranteed to win the league in 2 seasons time with new owners, or win the league in 5 with ENIC, what would people prefer? I'm just saying I don't quite understand the desire for this slow and steady growth plan, from a fan's perspective. I'm not talking about what is realistic, I'm not talking about sympathising with the constraints they have faced, Covid, stadium delays or anything else. They've been dealt a tough hand. I'm just saying as a fan, I want to win. I want to feel confident we are going to win, and have owners that will do anything to get us there. As a fan, I'd rather than happen sooner than later.

I make no argument they have been good on the business side for the time. I will make an argument their football decision making has been poor. But I just want to win.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Like...slightly ridiculous hypothetical question but if you could be guaranteed to win the league in 2 seasons time with new owners, or win the league in 5 with ENIC, what would people prefer? I'm just saying I don't quite understand the desire for this slow and steady growth plan, from a fan's perspective. I'm not talking about what is realistic, I'm not talking about sympathising with the constraints they have faced, Covid, stadium delays or anything else. They've been dealt a tough hand. I'm just saying as a fan, I want to win. I want to feel confident we are going to win, and have owners that will do anything to get us there. As a fan, I'd rather than happen sooner than later.

I make no argument they have been good on the business side for the time. I will make an argument their football decision making has been poor. But I just want to win.

Ooh.
You know, honestly, if it was guaranteed to win then I think I'd go for five years with ENIC.
Assuming that the two year option is with a new owner coming in and chucking external money at the problem.

I really like the thought of Spurs having worked their way up and built something without some version of the Chelsea/Emirates Marketing Project cheat code that they have (rightly) been disparaged for.
I'm not so hypocritical or possessing so little self-awareness that I'll claim that I'd not celebrate a title or trophy won/bought that way. But, right now, it would feel more earned and somehow 'better' to get it the other way.

Of course, it's a much harder hypothetical if the options were guaranteed win in 2/3 years with money doping through new owners, or not winning anything in the next ten years under the current system.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm almost onboard with a lot of what you say.
But, casting my mind back to the end of Poch's tenure, I'd wanted him to be given more time. But as the games continued and the malaise seemed so deep set I came round to thinking that he, Poch, did not have it within him, for whatever reason, to turn things around. So the football decision to get rid of him seemed right, though awfully emotional and painful.
And the decision to hire Jose, wasn't clearly wrong - despite some vocal opinion that it was. Just because it turned out poorly, doesn't mean that it was the wrong decision. You can make the right decision but still have a poor outcome, and must then be careful not to conflate the two.

I think, given there were many many people at the time diagnosing the problem of our team as one that had gotten stale, one where the spirit had gone, where too many players wanted to move on, and had considered they had done their time at Spurs, that I think you can say it was the wrong decision and the wrong outcome.

If barely anyone had questioned the appointment of Jose, then for sure it would be rich to now say it was the wrong decision. But I think Levy diagnosed the situation incorrectly. I honestly think he thought both that Poch had lost his magic and that he saw an opportunity to hire a manager who he had always been infatuated by, that he thought would get us back on track. My view on these things is, any manager is only as good as the structured and alignment around them. I thought Jose was on a hiding to nothing because I thought the squad had lost it's spirit, and that's why results started declining under Poch. I think if we had stuck with him, and had given him a chance to get Sess, N'Dombele and GLC fit, then signed Bergwijn, I think we will have just about made it through a tough period.

Levy has to get these calls right - he's the man at the top. I think he lost faith in Poch, and probably because he had too much faith in Jose's ability. And the fact that he was available led to Levy making a bad decision. One he no doubt thought was right, but plenty of people thought was wrong at the time and so it proved.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I think, given there were many many people at the time diagnosing the problem of our team as one that had gotten stale, one where the spirit had gone, where too many players wanted to move on, and had considered they had done their time at Spurs, that I think you can say it was the wrong decision and the wrong outcome.

If barely anyone had questioned the appointment of Jose, then for sure it would be rich to now say it was the wrong decision. But I think Levy diagnosed the situation incorrectly. I honestly think he thought both that Poch had lost his magic and that he saw an opportunity to hire a manager who he had always been infatuated by, that he thought would get us back on track. My view on these things is, any manager is only as good as the structured and alignment around them. I thought Jose was on a hiding to nothing because I thought the squad had lost it's spirit, and that's why results started declining under Poch. I think if we had stuck with him, and had given him a chance to get Sess, N'Dombele and GLC fit, then signed Bergwijn, I think we will have just about made it through a tough period.

Levy has to get these calls right - he's the man at the top. I think he lost faith in Poch, and probably because he had too much faith in Jose's ability. And the fact that he was available led to Levy making a bad decision. One he no doubt thought was right, but plenty of people thought was wrong at the time and so it proved.

I respect this view and, even if I don't hold to it, it's difficult to strongly argue against it.

 

[billyiddo]

The trouble i have with how i understand your position Brain, is that you seem to have decided they don't have aspirations to compete with the rest of the top 6 despite the outlay on transfers since moving in to the stadium which in part shows that they do - and rather than wait and see whether that level of spending continues and/or it bares fruits you've just decided it won't or what I'd say is more likely is that two years of spending with no results and your patience has run out? I get the ill feeling for the way Poch was allowed to slip through our fingers but not this writing off of our aspirations because i think they've shown they are thinking bigger than just making up the numbers in the top 6 and are behaving that way too, now that the stadium is a reality.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Ooh.
You know, honestly, if it was guaranteed to win then I think I'd go for five years with ENIC.
Assuming that the two year option is with a new owner coming in and chucking external money at the problem.

I really like the thought of Spurs having worked their way up and built something without some version of the Chelsea/Emirates Marketing Project cheat code that they have (rightly) been disparaged for.
I'm not so hypocritical or possessing so little self-awareness that I'll claim that I'd not celebrate a title or trophy won/bought that way. But, right now, it would feel more earned and somehow 'better' to get it the other way.

Of course, it's a much harder hypothetical if the options were guaranteed win in 2/3 years with money doping through new owners, or not winning anything in the next ten years under the current system.

What you're saying is totally fair.

I was also massively onboard with the idea that we didn't cheat our way to the top. And I think to be honest, we've already done it! Where as Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Villa etc have failed, we succeeded. Regular European football, never falling too far away. Getting so near to the biggest prizes with 0 spend. Ridiculous achievement.

I think, personally, that we can bank that, that we can be proud of a club that did it the right way, having invested in the infrastructure that really protects our long term future and not have us be overly reliant on external finances to sustain our level at the top table, and now just really go for it. It wouldn't mean any less to me. We did the hard yards. We arrived at the top table through sheer hard work and clever investments. And we did it without a level playing field. Now, to win, I just want to level that field. It won't be a cheat code to me. It would just be levelling it out. Winning a league is still ridiculously hard. It will still take great coaching, great performances, grit, determination, exciting football. Many people would still put in a huge amount of effort and skill and we could still support them every step of the way. It won't be easy. But it just means we'd finally be fighting with a similar sized knife.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The trouble i have with how i understand your position Brain, is that you seem to have decided they don't have aspirations to compete with the rest of the top 6 despite the outlay on transfers since moving in to the stadium which in part shows that they do - and rather than wait and see whether that level of spending continues and/or it bares fruits you've just decided it won't or what I'd say is more likely is that two years of spending with no results and your patience has run out? I get the ill feeling for the way Poch was allowed to slip through our fingers but not this writing off of our aspirations because i think they've shown they are thinking bigger than just making up the numbers in the top 6 and are behaving that way too, now that the stadium is a reality.

You're right. I think it's a combination of my scepticism of their footballing decision making, combined with scepticism that they will really invest to the level we need.

If I am wrong, I would be delighted. I just think if we ever get there it will take longer under ENIC than with someone else. Purely as a fan who has the right to be as irrational as he wants, I want to win now. And yes, I think the way Poch was treated (the fact that it was way harsh on the guy, and the fact that I just don't think it was the right footballing decision) leads me to being sceptical that ENIC are really capable, that they know how to build a team for this level. And it goes back to my earlier points that if we were really ready to invest at the level we needed, and it would just take another year or two to get into the stadium, I don't think Poch would have been so tinkled off. I think he would have gotten it, because he was so emotionally invested, and would have gone through so many hard yards, what is the problem with one more year? That then leads into the Jose decision, and you can see where my scepticism comes from.

Very, very, very happy to be proven wrong on all of it.

 

[JerusalemMan]

What you're saying is totally fair.

I was also massively onboard with the idea that we didn't cheat our way to the top. And I think to be honest, we've already done it! Where as Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Villa etc have failed, we succeeded. Regular European football, never falling too far away. Getting so near to the biggest prizes with 0 spend. Ridiculous achievement.

I think, personally, that we can bank that, that we can be proud of a club that did it the right way, having invested in the infrastructure that really protects our long term future and not have us be overly reliant on external finances to sustain our level at the top table, and now just really go for it. It wouldn't mean any less to me. We did the hard yards. We arrived at the top table through sheer hard work and clever investments. And we did it without a level playing field. Now, to win, I just want to level that field. It won't be a cheat code to me. It would just be levelling it out. Winning a league is still ridiculously hard. It will still take great coaching, great performances, grit, determination, exciting football. Many people would still put in a huge amount of effort and skill and we could still support them every step of the way. It won't be easy. But it just means we'd finally be fighting with a similar sized knife.

Spurs should be admired for the journey you outline. Yet we are still viewed as something of a joke, harder to laugh at than years ago but still. How much sneering and denigration do Tottenham get? How much faint or backhanded praise?
A part of me wants acknowledgement of our achievement. From outside our fanbase. It's shallow, but it's that thing of wanting people to know how good you are and not tear you down.

I'd want us to win something significant and maybe then get the external investment.
To remove the possible accusation of being as bad as the rest of them, of being hypocrites.

 

[billyiddo]

Have to say i guess i am still somewhat invested in achieving our success without the aid of a sugar daddy type and looking at the potential financial strength the stadium will give us then i certainly do believe it is very much attainable for us - i don't want to get this far and then skip to the front of the queue. I might be where you are Brain in say 5 years time if we're still sat here trophyless with a multitude of bad managerial appointments, but i can't help but think calling it a day 2 years in to the new stadium era is somewhat of a jumping of the gun on your part

 

[DubSpur]

I know - I want someone with money! At least willing to invest more than what ENIC are. Quite open about that now.

At least you're honest about what you want, rather than just bashing Levy because he doesn't have the backing of an oil rich country. I can at least respect that if I don't agree with all your views.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well I've been a fan since 1953 and will doubtless remain so even in the grave. You meanwhile, instead of supporting the club you purport to be a fan of will no doubt will continue boring us all ad nauseum with your rants about Enic and Levy. So once again I invite you to fudge off to the type of brick club you deserve - one that buys it's trophies over the graves of immigrant workers.

I'm not sure who made you the thought police on this board?

I can't speak for others but I know that I enjoy Dubai's posts and the general discussions he and others engage in on here far more than childish retorts like your one I have quoted, that much is for sure.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I know - I want someone with money! At least willing to invest more than what ENIC are. Quite open about that now.

You’d honestly like someone like Usmanov owning Spurs? An individual who’s linked to crime syndicates, dicey business deals, oil and all the corrupt officials of the former Soviet nations.

Give me Levy every day of the week.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

To the entitled lot who think we should be cradling trophies [emoji471] already, here’s a short psychometric questionnaire:

What will you do if we don’t get any gleaning metal soon?

What will you do if we do under Levy?

What appx year did you started supporting Spurs? Were you in it for the trophies then?

Do you except alternative owners to Levy could (are likely) to be a lot worse? From the incompetence of a Randy Learner to the milking machine of the Glaziers, or the dirty money of semi-criminal billionaire.

When you play games is it fun to cheat, to look up the answers or get the cheat code?



I honestly think the various Covid frustrations combined with us coming to the end of a lengthy period of progress has led to some being a miffed. I can understand it, but blaming Levy for your frustrations may not be valid or fair.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Baleforce]

You’d honestly like someone like Asimov owning Spurs? An individual who’s linked to crime syndicates, dicey business deals, oil and all the corrupt officials of the former Soviet nations.

Give me Levy every day of the week.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Issac?

 

[Mikey10]

I'm almost onboard with a lot of what you say.
But, casting my mind back to the end of Poch's tenure, I'd wanted him to be given more time. But as the games continued and the malaise seemed so deep set I came round to thinking that he, Poch, did not have it within him, for whatever reason, to turn things around. So the football decision to get rid of him seemed right, though awfully emotional and painful.
And the decision to hire Jose, wasn't clearly wrong - despite some vocal opinion that it was. Just because it turned out poorly, doesn't mean that it was the wrong decision. You can make the right decision but still have a poor outcome, and must then be careful not to conflate the two.

Excellent post.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Issac?

Opps

Usmanov

When he was invested at the scum some enterprising soul made a website cataloguing some of his misdemeanors. Like a lot of these oil billionaires he was linked to secret services, oil and natural resources. But also organised crime. Of course with unlimited funds his lawyers ensured the website was removed.

I guess he had to buy Everton via his accountant because he would fail the fit and proper test.

How did the PL let a bunch of crooks pump their dirty oil money through our league?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app