Bender

[Gazzasrightboot]

Stop! Hammer time and I have nothing against Mason except that he has no defensive awareness, we are wide open in CM and we need to upgrade one of the two in there. Now I believe the one with the most potential is Bentaleb so he has to remain, Mason may turn out to be a very good player but at the moment we need something different alongside Bentaleb.

As for getting a England call up I am chuffed for the kid but lets not get carried away that getting picked to play for a average England team is that much.

A little OTT surely no? No defensive awareness? If we are wide open in CM, then Bentaleb needs to take his fair share of the blame as well. Perhaps Chadli and Eriksen should also shoulder some blame for not tracking back. The point I am making is that it is not one player that will solve all of the defensive issues. It is the whole team. It's the kid's first season in the EPL, and he will only improve. Together with Bentaleb, that pairing finished fifth and got to a cup final.

 

[parklane1]

A little OTT surely no? No defensive awareness? If we are wide open in CM, then Bentaleb needs to take his fair share of the blame as well. Perhaps Chadli and Eriksen should also shoulder some blame for not tracking back. The point I am making is that it is not one player that will solve all of the defensive issues. It is the whole team. It's the kid's first season in the EPL, and he will only improve. Together with Bentaleb, that pairing finished fifth and got to a cup final.

Of course all of our players have to do their fair share of defending at various points of the game, but a M/F three of Eriksen, Mason and Bentaleb is not going to do enough to give protection to our defense. So what we have to look at is what those 3 add to our game and try and find out which one we should upgrade.

(1) Eriksen could be described as our best player by some, he will score ( and has done on several occasions) he also has the ability to beat a man and set up others, however he could not punch his way out of a paper bag. But his talent going forward, at free kicks and the fact he scores quite often would show he should be a starter in most games.

(2) Betaleb is a very good young player who has shown that he has so much to offer and gets better at those things he does not do well ( yet), but he looks like he will push on and at only 20 years of age he has plenty of time to do that.

(3) Mason is four years older then Bentaleb and he may also turn out to be a good player but I have seen nothing to suggest he will be much help on the defensive side of the game.

Now of course that is all in my opinion and I am sure some will disagree ( which is fine) at the moment of those three Mason is the one that is the weak link and unless we do somthing about it we will have the same problems through the middle and our back four will be left exposed again.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Of course all of our players have to do their fair share of defending at various points of the game, but a M/F three of Eriksen, Mason and Bentaleb is not going to do enough to give protection to our defense. So what we have to look at is what those 3 add to our game and try and find out which one we should upgrade.

(1) Eriksen could be described as our best player by some, he will score ( and has done on several occasions) he also has the ability to beat a man and set up others, however he could not punch his way out of a paper bag. But his talent going forward, at free kicks and the fact he scores quite often would show he should be a starter in most games.

(2) Betaleb is a very good young player who has shown that he has so much to offer and gets better at those things he does not do well ( yet), but he looks like he will push on and at only 20 years of age he has plenty of time to do that.

(3) Mason is four years older then Bentaleb and he may also turn out to be a good player but I have seen nothing to suggest he will be much help on the defensive side of the game.

Now of course that is all in my opinion and I am sure some will disagree ( which is fine) at the moment of those three Mason is the one that is the weak link and unless we do somthing about it we will have the same problems through the middle and our back four will be left exposed again.

I understand that, but that is predicated on the basis that the other two offer the same attacking qualities as Mason. I'm probably not doing a good job at explaining myself, but this article sums up my views quite well on Mason. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...n-tottenham-player-who-will-explode-in-201516

By no means is he perfect, but at the same time I don't think he is the weak link. Collectively the aforementioned 3 need to improve and I don't think it is beyond any of them to do so.

 

[parklane1]

I understand that, but that is predicated on the basis that the other two offer the same attacking qualities as Mason. I'm probably not doing a good job at explaining myself, but this article sums up my views quite well on Mason. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...n-tottenham-player-who-will-explode-in-201516

By no means is he perfect, but at the same time I don't think he is the weak link. Collectively the aforementioned 3 need to improve and I don't think it is beyond any of them to do so.

Well I guess we will have to see how it works out and agree to disagree for the time being.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

I love how our transfer target threads all turn into discussions about our current players and how crap they are and mention nothing on the linked target!

 

[Yiddo]

I love how our transfer target threads all turn into discussions about our current players and how crap they are and mention nothing on the linked target!

Upto the mods to sort out

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bender is first and foremost a holding midfielder so anyone judging him on any creative stats will naturally find a weakness

Similarly neither Mason or bentelab are holders so their defensive stats aren't as good as some.

What they both are, are technical players who play a passing game to the best of their ability, whilst covering the defence better than what we have done in a long time.

Only a season ago Rose looked woefully exposed due to a lack of cover on his side from eriksen. Last season that was improved immensely as Rose improved and he has cover some of the time

The right side suffered from a lack of a consistent right back but Lamella did do a decent defensive job over there whilst again being covered from Mason and bentelab

What did happen was teams went through the middle and attacked out centre backs and they were caught out... Yes Mason and bentelab could have done more defensively but they were in their first season at this level learning the role at this level...

If we want to bring in Bender who is currently a better player then great as I think he will spur both of these on and they will learn off him, just like he will lean some technical stuff off them

It would be interesting to see how we play with defensive midfielder who isn't a play starter, and see how that compares with out chance creation stats

 

[milo]

Bender is first and foremost a holding midfielder so anyone judging him on any creative stats will naturally find a weakness

Similarly neither Mason or bentelab are holders so their defensive stats aren't as good as some.

What they both are, are technical players who play a passing game to the best of their ability, whilst covering the defence better than what we have done in a long time.

Only a season ago Rose looked woefully exposed due to a lack of cover on his side from eriksen. Last season that was improved immensely as Rose improved and he has cover some of the time

The right side suffered from a lack of a consistent right back but Lamella did do a decent defensive job over there whilst again being covered from Mason and bentelab

What did happen was teams went through the middle and attacked out centre backs and they were caught out... Yes Mason and bentelab could have done more defensively but they were in their first season at this level learning the role at this level...

If we want to bring in Bender who is currently a better player then great as I think he will spur both of these on and they will learn off him, just like he will lean some technical stuff off them

It would be interesting to see how we play with defensive midfielder who isn't a play starter, and see how that compares with out chance creation stats

I'd be very surprised if we ended the transfer window with a 'win the ball and lay it off square to a passer' first choice pairing in central midfield.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I'd be very surprised if we ended the transfer window with a 'win the ball and lay it off square to a passer' first choice pairing in central midfield.

Agreed. We probably would have kept Capoue if that were the case.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'd be very surprised if we ended the transfer window with a 'win the ball and lay it off square to a passer' first choice pairing in central midfield.

Well everyone seems to think we need a holder!!!!

I've been arguing for some time that we have a decent pairing in midfield

 

[milo]

Well everyone seems to think we need a holder!!!!

I've been arguing for some time that we have a decent pairing in midfield

I think that anyone coming in is going to be required to be comfortable on the ball and have an eye for a quick attacking pass. I have not watched enough (or paid enough attention when I have) to say whether Bender could be that player.

 

[Modric THFC]

Well everyone seems to think we need a holder!!!!

I've been arguing for some time that we have a decent pairing in midfield

The last thing a team needs playing a high pressing high tempo style Pochettino is trying to achieve is a holder. Dembele is a holder.

 

[braineclipse]

Bender is first and foremost a holding midfielder so anyone judging him on any creative stats will naturally find a weakness

Similarly neither Mason or bentelab are holders so their defensive stats aren't as good as some.

What they both are, are technical players who play a passing game to the best of their ability, whilst covering the defence better than what we have done in a long time.

Only a season ago Rose looked woefully exposed due to a lack of cover on his side from eriksen. Last season that was improved immensely as Rose improved and he has cover some of the time

The right side suffered from a lack of a consistent right back but Lamella did do a decent defensive job over there whilst again being covered from Mason and bentelab

What did happen was teams went through the middle and attacked out centre backs and they were caught out... Yes Mason and bentelab could have done more defensively but they were in their first season at this level learning the role at this level...

If we want to bring in Bender who is currently a better player then great as I think he will spur both of these on and they will learn off him, just like he will lean some technical stuff off them

It would be interesting to see how we play with defensive midfielder who isn't a play starter, and see how that compares with out chance creation stats

As much as I rate Bentaleb I'm not sure how much he'll be able to teach the 26 year old Bender that he hasn't already learnt off players like Sahin and Gundogan...

I think that anyone coming in is going to be required to be comfortable on the ball and have an eye for a quick attacking pass. I have not watched enough (or paid enough attention when I have) to say whether Bender could be that player.

Was a very good fit under Klopp at Dortmund. They played a very quick direct attacking style a lot of the time. He did usually have a playmaker type like Sahin or Gundogan next to him, and to be fair he probably wasn't as missed when out with injuries as quite a few of their first team players.

He's not just a "traditional" DM though from what I've seen of him. Think he would be a good fit.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Agreed. We probably would have kept Capoue if that were the case.

Capoue is a bad example. He doesn't even begin to get the defensive side of the game right, which supposedely is his forte. Bender is streets ahead of Capoue.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well everyone seems to think we need a holder!!!!

I've been arguing for some time that we have a decent pairing in midfield

Either we need a holding player, or one of Bentaleb or Mason (possibly both) need to drastically improve the defensive side of their games. I can't name too many successful sides who didn't have some kind of "enforcer", Matic for example is this type of player but he can play as well.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Either we need a holding player, or one of Bentaleb or Mason (possibly both) need to drastically improve the defensive side of their games. I can't name too many successful sides who didn't have some kind of "enforcer", Matic for example is this type of player but he can play as well.

I can name two great sides that don't have an enforcer and their Barca and Madrid... They are. Great technical players who work in the pronciple of scoring more (Madrid) or actually working as a defensive unit and still scoring more (Barca)

Who is city's enforcer?
Arsenal don't have one either IMO

I actually think most teams now know that the better you are the least likely a side is you to attack you so you can have hard working better technical players in those roles as the enforcer side isn't really needed

Erisken for example took Matic out if the game at WHL last year just by using his football brain. He ran he everywhere so he wasn't effective and Fabregas offered less cover than any player on the pitch

The best pairing I've seen was Viera and Petit and both had a good defensive brain but above that were technically excellent with the ball and award of their surroundings. That's what's we should aim for with our central midfield pair

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree

I think it was a overall shape in terms of the defence, with half the issue being the protection give by 3 behind kane providing cover to the full backs / tracking runners.

All too many times players were pulled out of position covering for others. Mason and Bentaleb can cover in front of the defence, but they cannot cover all the runners if the front 3 don't track runners from deep.

Too simple IMO to say we need a DM and the problem is solved. If that DM is out on the Right Wing covering then it makes no difference.

I've just added a post here from @imcallingbullbrick Highlighting something that has been frequently ignored

The sides with a defbsuve midfield also work the hardest to make their job easier. It's no coincidence that of our attacking 3 behind Kane in one has been recognised for his defensive shift (Lamella) rather than his attacking credentials

A number if times when we have had runners at the defence we have had Mason or Bentelabd caught our supporting the attack (a big part if their job) whilst chasing back. The man left behind is normally outnumbered and struggles.
It's what Eriksens attacking mive net against Chelsea allowed us to do. We targeted their weak links defensively

Now if Chadli for example can put in a defensive shift to match his goal return we would have a hell of a player on our books and one that would be comparable to the likes of Hazrd because of his overall contribution IMO

Similarly Lamella may be able to attack more if he has a settled full back behind him

 

[Rorschach]

I've just added a post here from @imcallingbullbrick Highlighting something that has been frequently ignored

The sides with a defbsuve midfield also work the hardest to make their job easier. It's no coincidence that of our attacking 3 behind Kane in one has been recognised for his defensive shift (Lamella) rather than his attacking credentials

A number if times when we have had runners at the defence we have had Mason or Bentelabd caught our supporting the attack (a big part if their job) whilst chasing back. The man left behind is normally outnumbered and struggles.
It's what Eriksens attacking mive net against Chel53a allowed us to do. We targeted their weak links defensively

Now if Chadli for example can put in a defensive shift to match his goal return we would have a hell of a player on our books and one that would be comparable to the likes of Hazrd because of his overall contribution IMO

Similarly Lamella may be able to attack more if he has a settled full back behind him

I agree that is one more missing part of the defensive jigsaw. Chaldi and Eriksen really do need to take a long look at players like Hazard and Willian. They put the graft in out of possession on a completely different level to our guys. Mourinho almost values that more that their attacking credentials, just ask Schurle.

 

[milo]

Either we need a holding player, or one of Bentaleb or Mason (possibly both) need to drastically improve the defensive side of their games. I can't name too many successful sides who didn't have some kind of "enforcer", Matic for example is this type of player but he can play as well.

What about keeping the current system but signing an upgrade on Mason and Bentaleb?

 

[parklane1]

Well everyone seems to think we need a holder!!!!

I've been arguing for some time that we have a decent pairing in midfield

Wrong and I have tried in various threads to explain this before, what I want to see ( and others have said the same) is a CM player who can read the game better when we do not have the ball. We need a player who is aware of runners getting in behind our CM, we need players who can track these runners. Neither Bentaleb or Mason do this and there is a lot of ball watching goes on. Now Bentaleb is only 20 so there is a very good chance he will add this to his game, not sure that at 24 Mason will ( but I hope he proves me wrong)

I have never said I want a CM to just sit on the half way line and be a holder, sitting player, or whatever you want to call him, and again I have said this before and a lot of posters have agreed. There seems to be a lot of fans who want to put players into certain boxes and call them whatever, when what we need is a CM player who has the ability to read the defensive side of the game.