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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

Rossi, when you embrace the opinions of a fool, it doesn't make those opinions look twice as right or doubly valid.

It just makes two people look daft, instead of one.

Yes Bale playing right looked wrong, but everyone knew they would double up on our left to mark him, I wasn't impressed either............

but which ever way you cut it, or stroke it, the starting team was the best side we could have put out, based on fitness and form.

Roy - VDV didn't make a farts worth of difference, and you are deluding yourself, trying to make out that he did.

KD - you have some serious personal issues to deal with, keep them out of a football discussion FFS.
 
we looked disjointed even at 2-0 up against arsenal. there is a disconnect between the midfield and forwards in our pattern of play of late. I never thought I would say this but I agree with GB's assessment that VDV has to play in that floating role, with Modric in the middle & Bale on the left.
 
It's not about formations.

It's about incompatible personel.

Defoe and Adebayor and Saha reeks, stink, absolute stink of Old Tottenham - players who only perform in certain conditions, under certain winds of chance, with certain partners/teammates/playertypes. Players who need something to get there.

I have no feelings for Ade and Saha really, but I'd like Defoe to do better. But he's not. He's awful. Not clicking with anyone and just not in it. His saving grace last night though was his 10-15 minute working frenzy, and even then he was utterly harmless, ultimately.

Rafa galvanizes the side. Even when he doesn't play well, he still is good for a goal or a handfull of key passes. And at least he makes some effort pressing.

That's why we get hammered with 4-4-2 today. The strikers don't contribute because they don't click together and with anyone else - and because none of them press, we play 9 against 11.

It's poison, absolute poison, against teams like Everton
 
I have no personal issues Mick, I just don't like the same damn poster ruining a football topic with non football related stuff. I really did start a thread to discuss the wrong doings of Arry and im met with a sarcastic remark about there already being a formation thread and then "Gary" which is then followed by being refered to as a fudgewit .I overdone it with the responses granted but when someone's main goal is to get a reaction then I'm happy to push the boundaries also. Please mick don't respond to this post on here or respond via pm ( I will always respond when someone makes a comment and it seems I'm prolonging it).
 
Back on topic. I think many look for any other reason bar the 4-4-2 formation as to why were losing. Yeh the personnel and players being out of position is a problem but the main problem IMO has been formation.
 
VdV wasn't fully fit. No way Harry would have left it that late to bring him on if he was. Discussion including him in the starting line-up are in my opinion wasted.

Problem (again) was our central midfield. Ade and Defoe didn't manage much, but they rarely do against good defensive units without service.

Time and time again our defenders had the ball and no one in the central midfield wanted the ball. The few times they showed for it they only did so to pass it right back to the defender. As a result our options became to play it wide to our already double marked wide players, or try to pick out Ade with a long ball. Since our wide players were double marked and back at midfield they could do nothing and we're pretty much always brick at long balls.

Long balls are fine when nothing else works, but they are not fine when we have no movement around the player we hit it long to. Everton are great at that movement, we could learn a lot. We are possibly the worst in the league at that (no overstatement). We hit it long to Ade and Defoe was standing behind him, no one else fudging moved anywhere near him. Again our central midfield was completely wasted. Standing around being easily marked by Everton players. Our wide players had no idea where to go and we lost the ball. Once Friedel pumped it long to Bale on the right, he won his header with ease, but no one was there to challenge for the ball as it dropped. No one! That would be laughable if it wasn't so frustrating.
 
DanishWhite said:
It's not about formations.

It's about incompatible personel.

Defoe and Adebayor and Saha reeks, stink, absolute stink of Old Tottenham - players who only perform in certain conditions, under certain winds of chance, with certain partners/teammates/playertypes. Players who need something to get there.

I have no feelings for Ade and Saha really, but I'd like Defoe to do better. But he's not. He's awful. Not clicking with anyone and just not in it. His saving grace last night though was his 10-15 minute working frenzy, and even then he was utterly harmless, ultimately.

Rafa galvanizes the side. Even when he doesn't play well, he still is good for a goal or a handfull of key passes. And at least he makes some effort pressing.

That's why we get hammered with 4-4-2 today. The strikers don't contribute because they don't click together and with anyone else - and because none of them press, we play 9 against 11.

It's poison, absolute poison, against teams like Everton
Click to expand...

This. Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I hardly noticed Defoe in the 2nd half once Saha came on other than a couple of wayward shots and this is with us supposedly battering them in the 2nd half. Yes, Defoe scores good goals as witnessed against Stevenage and Man Utd but his team play if you compare him to Rooney for example, is crap.
 
Just to back up my thoughts. Defoe was involved 4 times in the 2nd half before Saha came on in the 54th minute.

47' Defoe gets a shot away, forcing Howard into a save.
49' Defoe drives into the box, Distin clears.
50' Wildly ambitious shot from a tight angle from Defoe.
53' Fine save again from Defoe as Howard gets behind it.

Then Saha comes on

58' Defoe hands off Heitinga before getting a shot off that is blocked behind for a corner. Should have been an Everton free kick.
61' Spurs' break is interrupted by a foul on Heitinga by Defoe. The striker is booked.
67' Defoe tests Howard again but his bobbly shot only worries the keeper once it has taken a flick off a blue shirt.
76' Defoe has the ball in the net but he is offside.
94' Defoe volleys wide from the edge of the box to end a frantic passage of play.

61' and 94' drove me insane.
 
africanspurs said:
we dont play 442 with VDV IMHO.
Click to expand...

african... we need your wisdom.

Explain. Where the hell are we going wrong and what does Harry need to do to correct it?

I think the flaws are obvious. I'm happy to go 4-4-2 with 2 front men proper, with Bale and Lennon playing. Otherwise its the old 4-2-3-1/4-3-3/4-5-1/4-4-1-1 style formation for me.
Balance is everything.

Modric and Bale were of course the key concerns. Our 2 best players shifted around. In hindsight I think we would have even been better with Niko or even VdV lining up on the right yesterday if we were not going to go 4-4-1-1
 
We're missing Lennon not VdV. Without pace on both flanks we are predictable and too easy to defend against.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Do you think we ever played 4-4-2 when Teddy was our first choice forward? Or Robbie Keane for that matter.
Click to expand...

This is true. Even when we play Ade and Defoe Ade drops quite deep a lot of the time. 4-4-2 with two out and out strikers (not forwards) was mainly seen from us when we used Pav and Defoe, and possibly now with Saha and Defoe.
 
DanishWhite said:
It's not about formations.

It's about incompatible personel.

Defoe and Adebayor and Saha reeks, stink, absolute stink of Old Tottenham - players who only perform in certain conditions, under certain winds of chance, with certain partners/teammates/playertypes. Players who need something to get there.

I have no feelings for Ade and Saha really, but I'd like Defoe to do better. But he's not. He's awful. Not clicking with anyone and just not in it. His saving grace last night though was his 10-15 minute working frenzy, and even then he was utterly harmless, ultimately.

Rafa galvanizes the side. Even when he doesn't play well, he still is good for a goal or a handfull of key passes. And at least he makes some effort pressing.

That's why we get hammered with 4-4-2 today. The strikers don't contribute because they don't click together and with anyone else - and because none of them press, we play 9 against 11.

It's poison, absolute poison, against teams like Everton
Click to expand...

Why bother dressing this post up as something worthwhile? Its just yet another opportunity for you to slate Defoe.

You're just a Danish Gutterboy

sad, really sad.
 
Kingdawson said:
Totally different. You're comparing them because they drop deep but the way VDV drops deep is totally different to either Teddy or Keane. It's clearly a 4-5-1 when Rafa plays.
Click to expand...

Not in my opinion. Keane used to drive me fudging nuts because he'd spend more time in our half than the oppositon, taking balls off the centre half. Teddy used to do it way too often too, but at least Teddy had an excellent passing game. VDV drops deeper no more or less than Teddy and Keane did.
 
milo said:
We're missing Lennon not VdV. Without pace on both flanks we are predictable and too easy to defend against.
Click to expand...

I just thought we missed balance to be honest. Lennon gives us that because he naturally plays wide right. The last 10 mins when Bale and Modric switched to their natural positions all of a sudden we looked a completely different team who were clearly a class above Everton. VDV and Kranky can play wide right but they are not comfortable there. Kranky is better on the left and VDV up front. I never thought I'd wish Bentley was still in contention but if we had him in the starting XI on the right it would give us the balance we need.
 
braineclipse said:
VdV wasn't fully fit. No way Harry would have left it that late to bring him on if he was. Discussion including him in the starting line-up are in my opinion wasted.

Problem (again) was our central midfield. Ade and Defoe didn't manage much, but they rarely do against good defensive units without service.

Time and time again our defenders had the ball and no one in the central midfield wanted the ball. The few times they showed for it they only did so to pass it right back to the defender. As a result our options became to play it wide to our already double marked wide players, or try to pick out Ade with a long ball. Since our wide players were double marked and back at midfield they could do nothing and we're pretty much always brick at long balls.

Long balls are fine when nothing else works, but they are not fine when we have no movement around the player we hit it long to. Everton are great at that movement, we could learn a lot. We are possibly the worst in the league at that (no overstatement). We hit it long to Ade and Defoe was standing behind him, no one else fudging moved anywhere near him. Again our central midfield was completely wasted. Standing around being easily marked by Everton players. Our wide players had no idea where to go and we lost the ball. Once Friedel pumped it long to Bale on the right, he won his header with ease, but no one was there to challenge for the ball as it dropped. No one! That would be laughable if it wasn't so frustrating.
Click to expand...

funny that.

Still never let an opportunity go by without blaming JD for some people.

Thank you for pointing that out
 
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