it is a key question - and id like to expand upon that : is instant improvement the only way to go?
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AVB - I want him out now!
- Thread starter NWND
- Start date
it is a key question - and id like to expand upon that : is instant improvement the only way to go?
So what you're saying is we're being poorly managed? Yep!
No but we're not even seeing a slow improvement are we?
He was probably their worst player, I'm not sure that proves your point though. Maybe Wanyama won't come good at all, I mean he was playing for Celtic last season which doesn't really mean he was playing against top quality opponents.
National team managers have to figure out how to get a bunch of talented players who haven't played together before to gel into a team and they don't get 11 games to do it. They also don't get 100 million to spend on bringing in the players they want, they just have to use the ones they are given. I don't think that is a particularly good excuse - these players should be able to score more than 6 goals from open play. I believe that is the 2nd worst in the league behind Crystal Palace, even Sunderland have scored more non-penalty goals than we have. That has to change, we should have scored around 20 goals by now with the players we have, regardless of whether they've played together before or not.
Yes I think probably. You can't have a team competing for the top 4 score 6 goals from open play in 11 games and look dire in attack with no sign of improvement and call it doing a good job. I'm willing to give him more time but for ****'s sake we better see some improvement.
depends where you're looking and the time frame you allow. our defense has improved, our ability to control games has improved - our attacking play has faltered - you've said yourself we're not playing our attacking talents at the moment - so maybe there's a very clear reason for you as to why this could be the case - would it not be wise to see if things change as and when they come in to the fold?
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
I agree with billy. Our defensive side of things has definitely improved. If that is what we are going for, slow progress in that sense and we're starting with our defence to win games then so be it.
If it was our attack that had started off this good and we were scoring 3 goals a game but also conceding 3 goals a game, drawing 3-3, losing 3-2 etc. people would be complaining that it isn't working and we shouldnt be playing Dawson, Walker isnt good enough and Rose is a **** left back etc.
Maybe AVB is taking it one step at a time, he's been here over a year, he's managed to get our defence looking solid and steady, got us pressing teams well, our ability to hold the ball well, like he and many in our team have said, once it all clicks, once we link up our attack, we'll be great, I just hope that when we do get our attacking play working, we dont at the expense of our solid defence that we've relied on this year.
If it was our attack that had started off this good and we were scoring 3 goals a game but also conceding 3 goals a game, drawing 3-3, losing 3-2 etc. people would be complaining that it isn't working and we shouldnt be playing Dawson, Walker isnt good enough and Rose is a **** left back etc.
Maybe AVB is taking it one step at a time, he's been here over a year, he's managed to get our defence looking solid and steady, got us pressing teams well, our ability to hold the ball well, like he and many in our team have said, once it all clicks, once we link up our attack, we'll be great, I just hope that when we do get our attacking play working, we dont at the expense of our solid defence that we've relied on this year.
Mulletperm
Mauricio Taricco
To be fair, with the exception of wanting AVB out now, all of NWND's points have been valid
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Ignoring the Chelsea fiasco, what was the football like at Porto?
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Pleasing on the eye. Moutinho was usually pulling the strings in midfield but he was surrounded by power, the likes of Guarin and Fernando. Then you had an 'inverted' type winger in Hulk coming in off the left, a deadly striker in Soldado but then you had the pace and directness of Varela on the other flank.
I mean something similar for us would be:
......................... .Soldado....................
Townsend.................................Lamela
..................Eriksen....Paulinho..............
..........................Sandro........................
Rose.........Vertonghen...Kaboul....Walker
..............................Lloris..........................
Defence is standard, he had attacking full backs, mostly Perriera though on the left, Sapanaru wasn't as attacking as Walker is. Sandro would be his 'Fernando' , defensive minded player, Sandro obviously is classes above, but after Lloris for me the first name on the teamsheet. Paulinho would be our Guarin, not as comfortable on the ball but youd think in the long run would end up with more goals. You'd also then have natural replacement in Dembele. Eriksen would be deeper playing like Moutinho was in his side, just sitting in the centre, dictating play whilst others sweep up and dominate around him, Holtby would work in this formation too, more deeper role for him.
You'd then have Townsend on the left, being direct. Attacking full backs with his pace, popping a shot off every now and then as well as just delivering balls in the box for the on rushing Paulinho, Soldado in the box and Lamela coming in at the back. Lamela would be our Hulk, obviously not as powerful but attacking defenders and cutting in to shoot with his sweet left foot.
Cochise
Steve Carr
From what I have read it was more of a 433 at Porto, with less rigidity placed upon two of the midfield three. Could this be the reason why we aren't emulating that system??
I still think Walker sits too high up at times and is literally on top of Townsend when if he dropped back a little it would help.
Also it looks like the front player looks very isolated in that system, was that the case at Porto?? Once again I havent seen enough to know but I think not having enough players around the forward is part of the problem.
I still think Walker sits too high up at times and is literally on top of Townsend when if he dropped back a little it would help.
Also it looks like the front player looks very isolated in that system, was that the case at Porto?? Once again I havent seen enough to know but I think not having enough players around the forward is part of the problem.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Well Falcao is more well-rounded than Soldado. Not comparing the styles of play at all but if we was to play the above system, Adebayor would be the more perfect fit for it, certainly an on form 2011-12 Adebayor anyway. In fact, he would thrive.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I still think we are missing that player who can link eveything together from deep, every team seems to have two players that can spot a decent pass but also move around the pitch and "stitch" everything together. We are looking reliant upon just one to do this job by playing two power players (two of Capoue/Sandro and Dembele/Paulinho). Then again surely these players can be taught how to move and create space for one another, just seems we are always going in circles with this argument.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
I'd really, really promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in this thread, but here goes. Firstly let me state that I do not think sacking our manager would make sense at this present time. As I said in another thread, AVB should be given a full season and judged at the end of it. The possibility being that if he were successful he may well jump ship anyhow.
My concern however is this, I first went to Spurs 41 years ago , taken as an 8 year old by my Grandfather. In those 41 years I have never ever seen a Spurs manager backed financially like AVB has been. Yet we are playing some dire football and looking at how we are playing it reminds me somewhat of the children's story of the Emperors new clothes. We simply don't look right. I can't put my finger on it but so far it simply isn't working.
That said we are only few points off second and I try and be a glass half full kind of guy. So I am hoping that it turns around and we start to entertain and win with a little style. The jury is very much out on AVB for me so far. Lets hope we win our next few games scoring freely as we go!
My concern however is this, I first went to Spurs 41 years ago , taken as an 8 year old by my Grandfather. In those 41 years I have never ever seen a Spurs manager backed financially like AVB has been. Yet we are playing some dire football and looking at how we are playing it reminds me somewhat of the children's story of the Emperors new clothes. We simply don't look right. I can't put my finger on it but so far it simply isn't working.
That said we are only few points off second and I try and be a glass half full kind of guy. So I am hoping that it turns around and we start to entertain and win with a little style. The jury is very much out on AVB for me so far. Lets hope we win our next few games scoring freely as we go!
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Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
If that is the case, and I think you have a valid point, then why on earth would that be the case after we have spent 120 million pounds in the summer?
Cochise
Steve Carr
Maybe because there weren't any of that type around or maybe this formation we are seeing is AVB's new plan and he is still trying to work out how best to make it work. I still question whether or not he is dictating to the players how they should play and not basing his formation/gameplan off of their strengths. It's why I like Rodgers, a man who was described as a staunch 433 man. He found himself with two strikers and no attacking wide players of note, so he said nuts to the system and changed to a new one, one that suited both Suarez and Sturridge to the ground. This is why AVB needs to look at what he has and change the plan to work to Eriksen/Lamela/Soldado's strengths.
I don't advocate sacking AVB at all. I do however think the man needs to change things to get the best of his players, even if that does mean dropping some others.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Were you on the old Spurs list in the early to mid 90s?
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Just be grateful you didn't suffer the Terry Neil era!