Ange in or out?

[djp82]

if that is the case, and I think it might be, why the fudge can't he do it every week?

Because besides odd game in EL the oppo have been championship quality. A lot of talk about Bodø but they were pretty average over two legs .

I’m delighted to reach a final but let’s not kid ourselves the Premier league is still up there as one of the hardest leagues on the planet.

So happy days a final to enjoy. He still needs to be let go this summer. The league forms been horrible for 18 months.

Just to add ,perhaps the penny has dropped after two years and his style of naive all attacking football will lead to nothing at the highest level. So he’s now willing to adapt it.

I hope he wins the EL a trophy for us at last. For me the damage is done I don’t think he can be trusted to lead us forward next season.

 

[elltrev]

Interesting snippet from the post-match dressing room:

 

[Grays_1890]

Out





Joke, will leave all this now in respect of the final till the end of the season

 

[Robspur12]

I'm wondering if part of the reason is that he doesn't trust the backups as much and have therefore been a lot more hung ho when they have played, which is for the majority of the season. First 8 games of the PL we had our first choice back 5 and we conceded 8 goals, 3 of which were that disastrous second half against Brighton.

But the back 5 has had to be changed week on week, and when you have Ben Davies at CB for a load of games, Gray at full back etc it's going to be more difficult to play that way. Not using it as an excuse, but wondering if the personnel he has had to play for majority of league games is part of the reason why it's been different. People keep saying 'it's no different when the first choice play' - yes it is there is a big difference. Last three Europa games alone that first choice back 5 has played and we've conceded one goal, it's no coincidence....

Pretty much the first choice back 5 started Vs Forest and Brighton in the PL and we lost both games conceding poor goals. I think it is more to do with the mentality of how we approach the knockout games in the Europa League as opposed to the PL, i.e not as gung-ho, defend better as a team, players up for it.

 

[harr1984]

Pretty much the first choice back 5 started Vs Forest and Brighton in the PL and we lost both games conceding poor goals. I think it is more to do with the mentality of how we approach the knockout games in the Europa League as opposed to the PL, i.e not as gung-ho, defend better as a team, players up for it.

Brighton was one of the first 8 games I was referring to, where we conceded 8 goals in 8 games with that back 5. Remove that nightmare second half and its 5 goals conceded in 7 games. The Forest game we didn't have Udogie, and he is now getting back to his best - but regardless having that back 5 means we are actually pretty solid, that doesn't mean we will never give away a poor goal - all teams do. T

he stats literally show it, and I'm only saying it is part of the reason. But when for 75% of the season's league games you are rotating in Davies/Gray/Spence etc it is not going to be a solid defensive structure, forgetting the fact they are all inferior when you are changing the defence on a weekly basis it is never going to be coherent....

 

[Baleforce]

Because besides odd game in EL the oppo have been championship quality. A lot of talk about Bodø but they were pretty average over two legs .

I’m delighted to reach a final but let’s not kid ourselves the Premier league is still up there as one of the hardest leagues on the planet.

So happy days a final to enjoy. He still needs to be let go this summer. The league forms been horrible for 18 months.

Just to add ,perhaps the penny has dropped after two years and his style of naive all attacking football will lead to nothing at the highest level. So he’s now willing to adapt it.

I hope he wins the EL a trophy for us at last. For me the damage is done I don’t think he can be trusted to lead us forward next season.

Quality of opposition is obviously a factor, but there has been a clear difference in mind set in some of these games than what we have seen most of the time.

Last night there was a clear plan to stifle, to win FK’s and disrupt the game,

There was pragmatism, why have we not had that against better opposition, where it is far more important.

 

[monkeybarry]

I have cognitive dissonance when it comes to Ange. On one hand I see poor league performances, us struggling to find any true playstyle and basic mistakes repeatedly being made, I hear excuses coming out of his press conferences. And I see a man that is under pressure and lashing out, staring deep into the floor almost as if he feels consigned to his place as an unwanted man at the club.

And then, I see our much more tactically astute performances in the Europa League. I hear his us v the opponent motivational speeches. He suddenly comes across with heart and well spoken meaning when involved with Europa League press conferences. He wins me over again and I start to deeply question why I have held such negative beliefs about him as our manager.

I don’t know what to think a lot of the time. I know we rotate and part of me wonders if we could rotate the league team slightly using a better squad with Ange and whether just somehow it could work. Maybe we could get performances if we could ensure that our first choice players weren’t always ran into the ground but instead had appropriate rest when required and rather than making wholesale changes we tinkered with the team and made a few changes when required.

I don’t understand how I can have such strong opposing views in my head. He constantly makes me question every belief that I have created and last night again was huge. U am simultaneously against him because of how horrible the league campaign has been whilst also being for him for our great Europa League run and the belief that has been instilled that we may well win the Europa League. It feels as if he is tactically astute at times, that he does know what we need to do and be in order to achieve success.

Whatever the future with Ange it’s been a huge rollercoaster of a season. I feel more of an open mind about his future at the club right now. Almost as if when in a relationship you see the good sides of a partner and know what they can be like, but question why isn’t it always like that? Why does the relationship bring so much upset, disappointment and frustration at other times?

Either way he’s done a great job with the team in getting to the Europa League Final and if he delivers success then whatever his future with us, he will make so many happy and proud to be Tottenham supporters. So thank you to him for the journey so far in the Europa league.

There is something in that post match clip that has slightly swayed my view - the talk about the next few weeks training and GAMES being all prep for the final.
I do wonder if the whole club decided to sacrifice the league and focus on the EL - if so, I can apply that to the results in the Lge.
So Would explain some of the performances and the inconsistency.

 

[Muttley]

It's interesting that we talk about the complete dichotomy between our PL and EL performances and then we end up meeting a PL team in the final. It also happens to be a PL team that we've beaten 3 times this season.

This is big for Ange. If he can prevail over another PL team then it builds his case to stick around. Getting his players organised against PL teams has been his downfall and winning 3 games against Utd but losing the important one will be a bitter pill.

I actually think we'll win, but only just.

 

[djp82]

Quality of opposition is obviously a factor, but there has been a clear difference in mind set in some of these games than what we have seen most of the time.

Last night there was a clear plan to stifle, to win FK’s and disrupt the game,

There was pragmatism, why have we not had that against better opposition, where it is far more important.

Maybe he’s seen that a different approach is needed.

There’s always a different mindset in knockout games from players to.

Also back to quality players . They didn’t hurt us when they got in to good positions. In the league the quality of players we come up against will punish small mistakes.

 

[Robspur12]

Brighton was one of the first 8 games I was referring to, where we conceded 8 goals in 8 games with that back 5. Remove that nightmare second half and its 5 goals conceded in 7 games. The Forest game we didn't have Udogie, and he is now getting back to his best - but regardless having that back 5 means we are actually pretty solid, that doesn't mean we will never give away a poor goal - all teams do. T

he stats literally show it, and I'm only saying it is part of the reason. But when for 75% of the season's league games you are rotating in Davies/Gray/Spence etc it is not going to be a solid defensive structure, forgetting the fact they are all inferior when you are changing the defence on a weekly basis it is never going to be coherent....

Forget stats for the moment and look at games. We beat Liverpool in the carabao at home, arguably our best result of the season, with Gray and Dragusin as CBs. But we shielded them well with Bergvall and Biss. Without a doubt it's easier to win games with your best 11 playing but that is not the whole story imho. We have been better in the Knockout games this season and for me, that's down to a better mentality from manager to players as well as a more pragmatic approach.
Btw I think Spence is a better defender than either Porro or Udogie.

 

[harr1984]

Forget stats for the moment and look at games. We beat Liverpool in the carabao at home, arguably our best result of the season, with Gray and Dragusin as CBs. But we shielded them well with Bergvall and Biss. Without a doubt it's easier to win games with your best 11 playing but that is not the whole story imho. We have been better in the Knockout games this season and for me, that's down to a better mentality from manager to players.

Firstly lets be clear, I'm not making excuses for poor performances - just offering a theory as to why he might not look to be as pragmatic when for the majority of league games. But my overall sense is that we have changed our back 5 almost every week after those first 8 games, and therefore you are not going to get any consistency when this happens. And it's not like for most of these games we have had the usual back 5 other than 1 of them and we've just needed a Dragusin or Spence to come in for a few games and slot in, otherwise I would absolutely expect us to be more coherent. But if you go through our lineups week after week there are changes left right and centre to that defence.

It's no coincidence that our back 5 that consistently play together and know each others game conceded 8 goals in 8 games in the league, due to injuries haven't played together in ages and then return to play for our big Europa League games and have conceded one goal in three games. Away at Frankfurt who are very good at home, away at Bode who always score at home - both clean sheets. We have missed four of that back 5 for big chunks of the season and it would hurt any team badly....

 

[glorygloryeze]

After the win and clean sheet, my dealer says we're going to win the EL

What does your, erm, dealer say on who the goalscorers will be in the final??

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Forget stats for the moment and look at games. We beat Liverpool in the carabao at home, arguably our best result of the season, with Gray and Dragusin as CBs. But we shielded them well with Bergvall and Biss. Without a doubt it's easier to win games with your best 11 playing but that is not the whole story imho. We have been better in the Knockout games this season and for me, that's down to a better mentality from manager to players as well as a more pragmatic approach.
Btw I think Spence is a better defender than either Porro or Udogie.

The players know the jeopardy in cup games
There isn’t a second life/chance
It’s exactly why I said we would win this cup
Also because we had the best players in it
We have had one cup game where we froze (pool away) but that may also be them
Villa away we had mistake early doors but were fair game of players had taken their chances
Other than that it’s been the one AZ game which was horrendous but they knew they had the second life

 

[Muttley]

What does your, erm, dealer say on who the goalscorers will be in the final??

I've not been informed yet. I'm guessing they're waiting to see if Ange breaks any more on the training ground before the final.

 

[billyiddo]

Firstly lets be clear, I'm not making excuses for poor performances - just offering a theory as to why he might not look to be as pragmatic when for the majority of league games. But my overall sense is that we have changed our back 5 almost every week after those first 8 games, and therefore you are not going to get any consistency when this happens. And it's not like for most of these games we have had the usual back 5 other than 1 of them and we've just needed a Dragusin or Spence to come in for a few games and slot in, otherwise I would absolutely expect us to be more coherent. But if you go through our lineups week after week there are changes left right and centre to that defence.

It's no coincidence that our back 5 that consistently play together and know each others game conceded 8 goals in 8 games in the league, due to injuries haven't played together in ages and then return to play for our big Europa League games and have conceded one goal in three games. Away at Frankfurt who are very good at home, away at Bode who always score at home - both clean sheets. We have missed four of that back 5 for big chunks of the season and it would hurt any team badly....

I think he knows a Europa League win is really important for him and the narrative of his time here and that he is doing all he can to make sure he can come away from this season (his time at Spurs) as a success

 

[harr1984]

I think he knows a Europa League win is really important for him and the narrative of his time here and that he is doing all he can to make sure he can come away from this season (his time at Spurs) as a success

It's all just guess work Billy, who knows. At the end of the day during our injury crisis it was already clear that the league was a write off and people on here saying we should focus on the Europa League. Who's to say Levy and Ange didn't speak about this and agree that he is allowed to focus on the Europa League? Hence why players have been wrapped up in cotton wool in the league, and maybe why for months when people were asking why hasn't he been sacked it was because we were still going for this tournament....

 

[billyiddo]

It's all just guess work Billy, who knows. At the end of the day during our injury crisis it was already clear that the league was a write off and people on here saying we should focus on the Europa League. Who's to say Levy and Ange didn't speak about this and agree that he is allowed to focus on the Europa League? Hence why players have been wrapped up in cotton wool in the league, and maybe why for months when people were asking why hasn't he been sacked it was because we were still going for this tournament....

Of course it's guesswork that goes without saying.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It's all just guess work Billy, who knows. At the end of the day during our injury crisis it was already clear that the league was a write off and people on here saying we should focus on the Europa League. Who's to say Levy and Ange didn't speak about this and agree that he is allowed to focus on the Europa League? Hence why players have been wrapped up in cotton wool in the league, and maybe why for months when people were asking why hasn't he been sacked it was because we were still going for this tournament....

So...what you're saying is that...if we win in the Final vs Man United: Ange will get a contract extension?

 

[monkeybarry]

It's interesting that we talk about the complete dichotomy between our PL and EL performances and then we end up meeting a PL team in the final. It also happens to be a PL team that we've beaten 3 times this season.

This is big for Ange. If he can prevail over another PL team then it builds his case to stick around. Getting his players organised against PL teams has been his downfall and winning 3 games against Utd but losing the important one will be a bitter pill.

I actually think we'll win, but only just.

That actually backs up the dichotomy - we are meeting a PL team that are almost a carbon copy of us; great in the EL, brick in the PL and on similar points and a similar position to us.

 

[Mikey10]

I have cognitive dissonance when it comes to Ange. On one hand I see poor league performances, us struggling to find any true playstyle and basic mistakes repeatedly being made, I hear excuses coming out of his press conferences. And I see a man that is under pressure and lashing out, staring deep into the floor almost as if he feels consigned to his place as an unwanted man at the club.

And then, I see our much more tactically astute performances in the Europa League. I hear his us v the opponent motivational speeches. He suddenly comes across with heart and well spoken meaning when involved with Europa League press conferences. He wins me over again and I start to deeply question why I have held such negative beliefs about him as our manager.

I don’t know what to think a lot of the time. I know we rotate and part of me wonders if we could rotate the league team slightly using a better squad with Ange and whether just somehow it could work. Maybe we could get performances if we could ensure that our first choice players weren’t always ran into the ground but instead had appropriate rest when required and rather than making wholesale changes we tinkered with the team and made a few changes when required.

I don’t understand how I can have such strong opposing views in my head. He constantly makes me question every belief that I have created and last night again was huge. U am simultaneously against him because of how horrible the league campaign has been whilst also being for him for our great Europa League run and the belief that has been instilled that we may well win the Europa League. It feels as if he is tactically astute at times, that he does know what we need to do and be in order to achieve success.

Whatever the future with Ange it’s been a huge rollercoaster of a season. I feel more of an open mind about his future at the club right now. Almost as if when in a relationship you see the good sides of a partner and know what they can be like, but question why isn’t it always like that? Why does the relationship bring so much upset, disappointment and frustration at other times?

Either way he’s done a great job with the team in getting to the Europa League Final and if he delivers success then whatever his future with us, he will make so many happy and proud to be Tottenham supporters. So thank you to him for the journey so far in the Europa league.

There's a simple answer. The teams in the EL are PL mid-table level and (largely) below - often at Championship level, and possibly some are even below that.

Winning the EL will still be a huge achievement. But it shouldn't mask the overwhelming evidence of almost two years.

Anyhow, from here on I'm saying nothing but positive things for the next 12 days. I actually strongly believe we will beat United in the final.

A TROPHY IS COMING, PEOPLE!