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American politics
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
Junior19
Reto Ziegler
Now we're heading into some interesting territory and some things that are actually worth discussing!
The whole point is how you go about the deportations, and how you handle the differences in jurisdiction, where the boundaries between federal and state law are. Obama and Biden did it mostly in cooperation with the states, Trump steamrolls them. Most of MAGA are coming from a demographic who are -very- pro state rights and anti-federal, that is quite a rich take.
There were protests against the deportations under Biden and Obama as well! But nobody got shot! Therefore it never got much media coverage. And of course, deploying ICE in the way that Trump has done rather puts the spotlight on it, does it not?
As for why the worst protests and incidents being in democrat states, that is rather obvious. ICE has not been deployed in the same way in the red states, for a number of reasons. The local law enforcement are much more relied upon to cooperate, even allowed to, to serve the federal immigration laws. Again, different state laws vs federal law. Sanctuary states, etc. Agree with it or not, but that is a matter for the Supreme Court to handle. Not boots on the ground.
As for Pretti kicking the car:
I have no doubt that there are people who do stupid things on every side of every controversial issue. Nobody is squeaky clean, nobody is 100% evil. If you dig deep enough, you find something, anything, on anyone. On some you don't have to dig very much at all, on others deep.
They do all have the same rights, the same protections by the law, and the right to due process. And not to get shot by some hot-head with no or little training.
The lines are not drawn between "deport criminals" and "let the criminals stay". I believe nearly the whole political spectrum agree that criminals should be punished and deported if the law allows it. There are however a difference in where the "illegal" changes to "criminal".
While some apparently classifies anyone who appears at the doorstep without a pre-approved visa as a criminal, other classifies them as illegal, and wants a process to determine their further status.
If this debaucle had been about these lines, processes and methods, and there were any willingness to find a common solution to it, such as, say... the bi-partisan bill suggested prior to the election that DJT demanded that the Republicans pulled out of, none of this would have happened, and the USA would have been better off for it. AND, it would have been better for millions of migrants/refugees/luckseekers/whatever you wish to call them.
The fact of the matter is that this was a wanted escalation by Trump. He wanted the issue unresolved, to be a hot potato he could run and win on, and he wants it to be an active issue to keep both his base and his opponents agitated.
This is NOT about immigration to them. Never has been, never will be. It is about his base of power.
For his base, whom he is playing like a fiddle, it may perhaps be about immigration. But not to him or the people around him.
On that note,
A proverb states that in order for a political lie to have maximum effect it must be aimed at the most ignorant stupid person in the crowd you're talking to. Judging by that and Trumps many absurd lies about immigration and crime, he must have utter contempt for his base, and rate them as dogbrick stupid.
Who are we to say he is wrong?
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
Now we're heading into some interesting territory and some things that are actually worth discussing!
The whole point is how you go about the deportations, and how you handle the differences in jurisdiction, where the boundaries between federal and state law are. Obama and Biden did it mostly in cooperation with the states, Trump steamrolls them. Most of MAGA are coming from a demographic who are -very- pro state rights and anti-federal, that is quite a rich take.
There were protests against the deportations under Biden and Obama as well! But nobody got shot! Therefore it never got much media coverage. And of course, deploying ICE in the way that Trump has done rather puts the spotlight on it, does it not?
As for why the worst protests and incidents being in democrat states, that is rather obvious. ICE has not been deployed in the same way in the red states, for a number of reasons. The local law enforcement are much more relied upon to cooperate, even allowed to, to serve the federal immigration laws. Again, different state laws vs federal law. Sanctuary states, etc. Agree with it or not, but that is a matter for the Supreme Court to handle. Not boots on the ground.
As for Pretti kicking the car:
I have no doubt that there are people who do stupid things on every side of every controversial issue. Nobody is squeaky clean, nobody is 100% evil. If you dig deep enough, you find something, anything, on anyone. On some you don't have to dig very much at all, on others deep.
They do all have the same rights, the same protections by the law, and the right to due process. And not to get shot by some hot-head with no or little training.
The lines are not drawn between "deport criminals" and "let the criminals stay". I believe nearly the whole political spectrum agree that criminals should be punished and deported if the law allows it. There are however a difference in where the "illegal" changes to "criminal".
While some apparently classifies anyone who appears at the doorstep without a pre-approved visa as a criminal, other classifies them as illegal, and wants a process to determine their further status.
If this debaucle had been about these lines, processes and methods, and there were any willingness to find a common solution to it, such as, say... the bi-partisan bill suggested prior to the election that DJT demanded that the Republicans pulled out of, none of this would have happened, and the USA would have been better off for it. AND, it would have been better for millions of migrants/refugees/luckseekers/whatever you wish to call them.
The fact of the matter is that this was a wanted escalation by Trump. He wanted the issue unresolved, to be a hot potato he could run and win on, and he wants it to be an active issue to keep both his base and his opponents agitated.
This is NOT about immigration to them. Never has been, never will be. It is about his base of power.
For his base, whom he is playing like a fiddle, it may perhaps be about immigration. But not to him or the people around him.
On that note,
A proverb states that in order for a political lie to have maximum effect it must be aimed at the most ignorant stupid person in the crowd you're talking to. Judging by that and Trumps many absurd lies about immigration and crime, he must have utter contempt for his base, and rate them as dogbrick stupid.
Who are we to say he is wrong?
The issue here is the two are not linked, there is no threshold for the two incidents to be added together like the person who shoot him had this automatic inbuild barometer where is was like "thats the guy who kicked the car last week, 2nd striker, he is done" thats what these twitter clips suggest, which is just utter BS.
Yes he might be a pro agitator, yes he might have been rallying every week, but protesting is every Americans right, thats exactly what we have heard for years before this, just like the 2nd amendment stuff.
This is a classic example of the extreme right not liking their examples or excuses used against them, the same people who defended Capitol Hill riots etc..........thats why I don't trust a single one of them
Mikey10
Rafael Van Der Vaart
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
You need to search deep inside yourself compassion Chich. This was days before he was murdered.
Do you think this video makes it OK he was shot dead the way he was?
Clock out of the victim echo chamber for a while and see how hateful Twitter has made you.
Lord.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
So the far right idiots logic is if you kick a vehicle, then 10 days later the state can execute you. Got it.
Look at yourselves in the mirror.
Look at yourselves in the mirror.
ricky2tricky4city
Barry Daines
The simple difference is...the Trump administration has no interest in allowing 'due process ' for each individual person.Now we're heading into some interesting territory and some things that are actually worth discussing!
The whole point is how you go about the deportations, and how you handle the differences in jurisdiction, where the boundaries between federal and state law are. Obama and Biden did it mostly in cooperation with the states, Trump steamrolls them. Most of MAGA are coming from a demographic who are -very- pro state rights and anti-federal, that is quite a rich take.
There were protests against the deportations under Biden and Obama as well! But nobody got shot! Therefore it never got much media coverage. And of course, deploying ICE in the way that Trump has done rather puts the spotlight on it, does it not?
As for why the worst protests and incidents being in democrat states, that is rather obvious. ICE has not been deployed in the same way in the red states, for a number of reasons. The local law enforcement are much more relied upon to cooperate, even allowed to, to serve the federal immigration laws. Again, different state laws vs federal law. Sanctuary states, etc. Agree with it or not, but that is a matter for the Supreme Court to handle. Not boots on the ground.
As for Pretti kicking the car:
I have no doubt that there are people who do stupid things on every side of every controversial issue. Nobody is squeaky clean, nobody is 100% evil. If you dig deep enough, you find something, anything, on anyone. On some you don't have to dig very much at all, on others deep.
They do all have the same rights, the same protections by the law, and the right to due process. And not to get shot by some hot-head with no or little training.
The lines are not drawn between "deport criminals" and "let the criminals stay". I believe nearly the whole political spectrum agree that criminals should be punished and deported if the law allows it. There are however a difference in where the "illegal" changes to "criminal".
While some apparently classifies anyone who appears at the doorstep without a pre-approved visa as a criminal, other classifies them as illegal, and wants a process to determine their further status.
If this debaucle had been about these lines, processes and methods, and there were any willingness to find a common solution to it, such as, say... the bi-partisan bill suggested prior to the election that DJT demanded that the Republicans pulled out of, none of this would have happened, and the USA would have been better off for it. AND, it would have been better for millions of migrants/refugees/luckseekers/whatever you wish to call them.
The fact of the matter is that this was a wanted escalation by Trump. He wanted the issue unresolved, to be a hot potato he could run and win on, and he wants it to be an active issue to keep both his base and his opponents agitated.
This is NOT about immigration to them. Never has been, never will be. It is about his base of power.
For his base, whom he is playing like a fiddle, it may perhaps be about immigration. But not to him or the people around him.
On that note,
A proverb states that in order for a political lie to have maximum effect it must be aimed at the most ignorant stupid person in the crowd you're talking to. Judging by that and Trumps many absurd lies about immigration and crime, he must have utter contempt for his base, and rate them as dogbrick stupid.
Who are we to say he is wrong?
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Alex Pretti deserves a monument. Renee Good deserves a monument. People who stood for humanity when it was failing.