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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

braineclipse said:
Agreed. Point was made on the pod about how when we're forced to play with real intent we have looked quite decent, several times.

He needs to find some solutions. If we lose the next two league games (or only get a point from those two) I really struggle to see how there's a way for him to still be here next season. Would take the turnaround of all turnarounds.
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I don't think he's here next season regardless.

The issue for him is February (brutal schedule), if he doesn't get something out of the 4 remaining games this month, hard to see him lasting through February, can you imagine if we get tonked and/or put up another dead performance against the Scum home?
 
Raziel said:
I said they are all winnable games, and they are all games we should have expectations to win. I am aware football doesn't work like that, hence the caveat.

Reality is the entire PL is brick this year, if we did have our brick together, yes we would probably be in top 3 (like Villa), we don't and no, it isn't all on the manager but only winning 7 out of 21 when we have played some historically bad teams is on him.

This conversation is the perfect example of what keeping Ange and Frank has done to this club (and yes, Levy has to take some part of the blame for that), our own fans are bought into such a low fudging bar, that I'm deluded for thinking Spurs could/should beat bottom half PL teams or aim for something more than 8th
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You named 4 teams, only one is bottom half
 
billyiddo said:
You named 4 teams, only one is bottom half
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It was more Sonny than Ange. I think he was the glue of the team. Everyone in and out of the locker respected and loved him. VdV and Romero as captains have become a joke. No leadership at all if Frank had Son I think it would've been different.
 
Sorry if it’s a bit of a diversion from the actual topic but I saw this earlier….

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And it just made me think, I feel like that team talk could be given at basically any point in the last 4 or 5 managers now. I do often watch us and wonder if any of the players care, and if they give a toss win or lose… it’s the mentality of this club.

I’m not saying Frank is blameless, of course not. But why is it that with this club it just so often feels like it’s actually ok to not be trying in every moment or every game?
 
Rafa87 said:
And it just made me think, I feel like that team talk could be given at basically any point in the last 4 or 5 managers now. I do often watch us and wonder if any of the players care, and if they give a toss win or lose… it’s the mentality of this club.

I’m not saying Frank is blameless, of course not. But why is it that with this club it just so often feels like it’s actually ok to not be trying in every moment or every game?
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100% disagree, I think if you watch Romero, VDV, Porro, Paulhinha, Xavi, Tel, Richi, very hard to say these guys don't care, frustrated? confused by manager's orders? sure, but so far from don't care.

I think there were generations of Spurs players quite willing to dial it in, I don't think this team is that. And I think that's the only reason Frank has a job, the club is confusing players still being professionals with playing for the manager. That 2nd half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Pool or Villa doesn't happen if the players don't care
 
Raziel said:
100% disagree, I think if you watch Romero, VDV, Porro, Paulhinha, Xavi, Tel, Richi, very hard to say these guys don't care, frustrated? confused by manager's orders? sure, but so far from don't care.

I think there were generations of Spurs players quite willing to dial it in, I don't think this team is that. And I think that's the only reason Frank has a job, the club is confusing players still being professionals with playing for the manager. That 2nd half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Pool or Villa doesn't happen if the players don't care
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Yeah probably fair for those you’ve mentioned and probably people like Bergvall too, honestly I think I’m just so worn down by this club at the moment. I do still feel we have a lack of players who actually look at their own part in this though.
 
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Rafa87 said:
Sorry if it’s a bit of a diversion from the actual topic but I saw this earlier….

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And it just made me think, I feel like that team talk could be given at basically any point in the last 4 or 5 managers now. I do often watch us and wonder if any of the players care, and if they give a toss win or lose… it’s the mentality of this club.

I’m not saying Frank is blameless, of course not. But why is it that with this club it just so often feels like it’s actually ok to not be trying in every moment or every game?
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As I have always said, it comes from the top. The players know that the ambition is 4th place, that means they can lose games. ‘There’s always next week’.

Players at clubs who have an ambition to win the league know they need to win every game.
 
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Raziel said:
100% disagree, I think if you watch Romero, VDV, Porro, Paulhinha, Xavi, Tel, Richi, very hard to say these guys don't care, frustrated? confused by manager's orders? sure, but so far from don't care.

I think there were generations of Spurs players quite willing to dial it in, I don't think this team is that. And I think that's the only reason Frank has a job, the club is confusing players still being professionals with playing for the manager. That 2nd half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Pool or Villa doesn't happen if the players don't care
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Just so I can understand... exactly which confusing manager orders are responsible for these guys to "miss **** passes"? To be unable to put a 10 yard pass at the feet of a teammate? To make an unforced passing error every 3 minutes?
 
Mabspurs said:
Just so I can understand... exactly which confusing manager orders are responsible for these guys to "miss **** passes"? To be unable to put a 10 yard pass at the feet of a teammate? To make an unforced passing error every 3 minutes?
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100% this !!
He isn't in control of the stuff you mention above, it's on the players, they need some accountability !!
 
WillWeEverBeGoodAgain said:
100% this !!
He isn't in control of the stuff you mention above, it's on the players, they need some accountability !!
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LOL - isn't the modern manager way to take the bullets themselves and say that they were the ones who asked their precious babies to take the risks and play that way. Couldn't possibly be the players fault.
 
Mabspurs said:
Just so I can understand... exactly which confusing manager orders are responsible for these guys to "miss **** passes"? To be unable to put a 10 yard pass at the feet of a teammate? To make an unforced passing error every 3 minutes?
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Yep, no system, the reason they miss place the pass is because there is no pattern, no system, no movement coached into them.

Go watch the two analysis videos I've posted, one by a licensed coach, and it points out exactly that, a failure of coaching.
 
Raziel said:
Yep, no system, the reason they miss place the pass is because there is no pattern, no system, no movement coached into them.

Go watch the two analysis videos I've posted, one by a licensed coach, and it points out exactly that, a failure of coaching.
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Sorry mate but that is hogwash. If you are talking systems and progression I would agree, But if a player has the ability, nothing the coach does or says should make him misplace a routine 10 yard pass - let alone do it every 3 minutes!!! And no amount of fancy videos can convince otherwise....

But of course, we have a world class squad that came 17th last year solely because of cosmic intervention and is currently not in the top 4 solely and exclusively because of Thomas Frank and his incompetence.
 
Mabspurs said:
Sorry mate but that is hogwash. If you are talking systems and progression I would agree, But if a player has the ability, nothing the coach does or says should make him misplace a routine 10 yard pass - let alone do it every 3 minutes!!! And no amount of fancy videos can convince otherwise....

But of course, we have a world class squad that came 17th last year solely because of cosmic intervention and is currently not in the top 4 solely and exclusively because of Thomas Frank and his incompetence.
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It's obviously not an either or situation. A world class passer would be great at passing more or less no matter what. Other factors too like form, confidence, fatigue. But the lack of attacking movement and a functional attacking plan is definitely a significant part of it.

No one has actually said that we have a world class squad or that this is exclusively on Frank. Much like fancy videos don't convince you I find the straw man argument entirely unconvincing.
 
braineclipse said:
It's obviously not an either or situation. A world class passer would be great at passing more or less no matter what. Other factors too like form, confidence, fatigue. But the lack of attacking movement and a functional attacking plan is definitely a significant part of it.

No one has actually said that we have a world class squad or that this is exclusively on Frank. Much like fancy videos don't convince you I find the straw man argument entirely unconvincing.
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Oh I think Raziel has posted several times that it is all on Frank. Which I find bizarre given we had similar issues last season. With a manager who had a very defined style.
 
My dad's a little too old to frequent Internet forums, but he played/coached to a decent standard and asked something recently that resonated. When was the last time it looked like our players were enjoying playing football? Not celebrating after the game (Frankfurt/Bilbao/Etihad) but actually playing with enthusiasm and spirit?

I sometimes wonder if the endless team meetings/video analysis/being talked through a spreadsheet before you get on to the pitch don't play a part in making football even more of a job than it is: a job where half the people in a 60k stadium boo you for not doing it very well.

Someone said on here the other day we should get Ange back to do the team talks (although he was a moody so and so by the end), but it feels like there's a weight on these players' shoulders and lifting that might improve performance.

Thomas Frank seems like a smart man and he may have noticed this himself, but management is about cultivating an environment where people can display their talent to the best of their abilities. At the moment it feels like both players and supporters are dreading every game, something that needs to change for results to follow suit.
 
Mabspurs said:
Just so I can understand... exactly which confusing manager orders are responsible for these guys to "miss **** passes"? To be unable to put a 10 yard pass at the feet of a teammate? To make an unforced passing error every 3 minutes?
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A lot of players are missing placing passes. Surely that's a coaching thing too. Crap at passing all of a sudden, let's just ignore that. That's as bad as Ange refusing to work on set pieces.
 
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