• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Timo Werner

Bedfordspurs said:
He doesn’t get goals from other areas of the pitch
He used too
In this system… he has scored one goal vs Burnley outside of the box and that was a one on one.
In fact our record for goals from over 12 yards from goal is almost non-existent
So are we getting the best out of him asking him to be a fox in the box? That’s not his game but that’s what the system needs.
Old article but explains the issue here in where he is now playing https://www.skysports.com/football/...under-ange-postecoglou-after-harry-kanes-exit

The above image of where his goals have come from

We need him to be the CF and focal point but he can’t do that

Every team has to have players that suit their set up.
Click to expand...

This season he has played 18 games as cf. 12 goals 5 assists. 10 as lwf 3 goals 4 assists.
 
We’ve shifted tactics since January, using Werner and Johnson more as pacy wingers hitting the line.

It was very different with Solomon/Richi and Kulu as the primary wide men as they would come back inside to lay off onto the edge of the box..

That’s why the chance creations have changed and why we need a physical and aggressive CF if we are going to continue playing this way.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He doesn’t get goals from other areas of the pitch
He used too
In this system… he has scored one goal vs Burnley outside of the box and that was a one on one.
In fact our record for goals from over 12 yards from goal is almost non-existent
So are we getting the best out of him asking him to be a fox in the box? That’s not his game but that’s what the system needs.
Old article but explains the issue here in where he is now playing https://www.skysports.com/football/...under-ange-postecoglou-after-harry-kanes-exit

The above image of where his goals have come from

We need him to be the CF and focal point but he can’t do that

Every team has to have players that suit their set up.
Click to expand...

So according to that chart all but one of his goals have come from inside the box? Sorry but I don’t see what the issue is? He has 15 league goals despite missing a month of the season. And yet your opinion is we don’t need better than Werner and Johnson?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I agree
Him and Kulu are now, IMO big issues
Both top drawer players but not right for Ange ball for differing reasons
Son could be playing wide left as he is two footed but he has never really been that creator. Would be a goal threat with room to run into though
Kulu mainly because he is a cut in guy which means his outside is exposed
I don’t think either player is likely to be replaced but I think there roles will change
Click to expand...
I think Son is significantly better suited to the central striker role than to the wide left role in this system.

He does have weaknesses in that role, as almost all players have. I think some of those weaknesses can be compensated for by improvements elsewhere.

Kulusevski I agree is a bit of an issue. Still a very good player and definitely useful, but if he can't step up (or the team use him more effectively) he won't be a first choice starter on the right.
 
Jurgen the German said:
So according to that chart all but one of his goals have come from inside the box? Sorry but I don’t see what the issue is? He has 15 league goals despite missing a month of the season. And yet your opinion is we don’t need better than Werner and Johnson?
Click to expand...

He has 15 league goals and a decent return of assists too … 8 I think

And most of them, as you can see come from being in the box for tap ins, which is how the system works.

That’s not playing to some strength, it’s the system.

He doesn’t hold the ball up or really work the centre back against low blocks. You can look at the goals scored against those sides and see that. And that’s the issue that I don’t think people are seeing

Scoring 15 goals against teams that attack us or open up is great. But it’s the games we don’t win that are costing us.

Wolves at home
West Ham away
fulham
Brentford
Palace … son scored the last goal after they were broken down
Everton we had Richarlison doing exactly what I’m talking about… just not enough in the end thanks to the set piece issue
United

There are others but I’ve ended at the start of this year

Sonny is a quality player but he isn’t an Ange ball CF, whereas Jonson and Werner are Ange ball wingers. Sonny is too IMO.

The Sonny we know and your thinking of (with the shooting reference) isn’t the same guy we’re seeing playing CF. It’s a very different set up. No room to turn and tap ins. Son is about shooting in space with screamers and worldies

Richy does a better job, when on it, that son at CF. He was scoring the important goals

I’ll add that this weekend will be interesting as Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren’t a low block team. We may see Sonny being more effective if they give him space
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He has 15 league goals and a decent return of assists too … 8 I think

And most of them, as you can see come from being in the box for tap ins, which is how the system works.

That’s not playing to some strength, it’s the system.

He doesn’t hold the ball up or really work the centre back against low blocks. You can look at the goals scored against those sides and see that. And that’s the issue that I don’t think people are seeing

Scoring 15 goals against teams that attack us or open up is great. But it’s the games we don’t win that are costing us.

Wolves at home
West Ham away
fulham
Brentford
Palace … son scored the last goal after they were broken down
Everton we had Richarlison doing exactly what I’m talking about… just not enough in the end thanks to the set piece issue
United

There are others but I’ve ended at the start of this year

Sonny is a quality player but he isn’t an Ange ball CF, whereas Jonson and Werner are Ange ball wingers. Sonny is too IMO.

The Sonny we know and your thinking of (with the shooting reference) isn’t the same guy we’re seeing playing CF. It’s a very different set up. No room to turn and tap ins. Son is about shooting in space with screamers and worldies

Richy does a better job, when on it, that son at CF. He was scoring the important goals

I’ll add that this weekend will be interesting as Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren’t a low block team. We may see Sonny being more effective if they give him space
Click to expand...

I completely disagree but fair enough mate.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I completely disagree but fair enough mate.
Click to expand...
That’s fine
It’s all about opinions
I’d be worried if Ange disagreed. The talk about us eating the striker form Feyenoord makes me think we’re looking for a proper CF now. Ange now’s from his previous experiences that having a CF who plays as one is key.
We can then see what happens with son
 
Sonny playing with his back to goal and/or dropping back towards the midfield to get involved in build up play is the poorest part of his game by some distance. Yet he is being asked (I presume) to do that.

Sonny shouldn't be in the focus of the opposition CHs. His role shouldn't be to occupy them. Yet he plays in a position/role where the CF needs to be able to do that. It's so far off from playing to his strengths. How or where we do that is another conversation.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s fine
It’s all about opinions
I’d be worried if Ange disagreed. The talk about us eating the striker form Feyenoord makes me think we’re looking for a proper CF now. Ange now’s from his previous experiences that having a CF who plays as one is key.
We can then see what happens with son
Click to expand...
I agree with some of your points, but don't think Ange has always played with a 'proper' CF.

At Celtic he had Giakoumakis who he'd bring on as a sub more often than not. He was probably more in the Richie 'typical CF' mould.

But I think he'd usually start Furuhashi or Maeda centrally and they're probably more similar to Son, skillful all-round forwards. Not big lumps.

I think Ange just likes having options more than anything.
 
jrh said:
I agree with some of your points, but don't think Ange has always played with a 'proper' CF.

At Celtic he had Giakoumakis who he'd bring on as a sub more often than not. He was probably more in the Richie 'typical CF' mould.

But I think he'd usually start Furuhashi or Maeda centrally and they're probably more similar to Son, skillful all-round forwards. Not big lumps.

I think Ange just likes having options more than anything.
Click to expand...
Were any of them converted wingers?
I always though he played Furahashi who is a striker
But hold up play is less of an issue in the pub league
Its about chance conversion there
Were actually good at scoring our chances but brick against low block teams because we have no presence in the box to work their CBs
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Were any of them converted wingers?
I always though he played Furahashi who is a striker
But hold up play is less of an issue in the pub league
Its about chance conversion there
Were actually good at scoring our chances but brick against low block teams because we have no presence in the box to work their CBs
Click to expand...
Both Furuhashi and Maeda could operate as wide forwards, yep.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Sonny playing with his back to goal and/or dropping back towards the midfield to get involved in build up play is the poorest part of his game by some distance. Yet he is being asked (I presume) to do that.

Sonny shouldn't be in the focus of the opposition CHs. His role shouldn't be to occupy them. Yet he plays in a position/role where the CF needs to be able to do that. It's so far off from playing to his strengths. How or where we do that is another conversation.
Click to expand...
Exactly my thoughts
Sonny hasn’t become a poor player
But he isn’t an effective player currently
A proper 9 would be getting a goal a game in this set up
 
Baleforce said:
One of those occasions where the stats tally with what we can see with our own eyes.

He’s been exceptional for us so far.
Click to expand...
Exceptional is strong
What he is doing is what is asked other than hitting the net
But he is showing how a player who can take a man on can offer something I’d argue when for we do have a good mix of options. The issue is them staying fit
I’d love us to shift Gil and Gio (differing reasons) and sign that genuine wide man
But for me we need a presence striker first and foremost. That man who makes CBs think every time he is on the pitch
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Exceptional is strong
What he is doing is what is asked other than hitting the net
But he is showing how a player who can take a man on can offer something I’d argue when for we do have a good mix of options. The issue is them staying fit
I’d love us to shift Gil and Gio (differing reasons) and sign that genuine wide man
But for me we need a presence striker first and foremost. That man who makes CBs think every time he is on the pitch
Click to expand...

Probably just on a windup as usual. He thinks we have the best team in the league every season regardless of how good everyone else is.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Probably just on a windup as usual. He thinks we have the best team in the league every season regardless of how good everyone else is.
Click to expand...
The data and stats are right
And it shows them in the tweet
But… exceptional, as I say is strong
But I do think if we had a striker attacking his crosses it would be a better outcome
 
Exceptional means “much greater than usual”, seeing as he is topping the relevant stat charts, I’d say that fits.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The data and stats are right
And it shows them in the tweet
But… exceptional, as I say is strong
But I do think if we had a striker attacking his crosses it would be a better outcome
Click to expand...

I still believe there is better out there than Werner personally. Not saying he hasn’t done well but it’s a small sample of games to choose from.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back