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I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

They must see something on the training field that we aren't seeing to make them persist or maybe they have no choice because he cost so much.Each game i am waiting for the magic but it just never happens.Take the time to watch scout nations you tube of Lamela at Roma and you will see why he is struggling to score goals here and why he probably always will.Firstly he was accorded much more space to shoot and secondly a number of goals came from the middle a postion he wouldn't often be in when he plays for us.Can he contribute enough in assists ?I am not sure but one more season won't harm.
 
Jurgen the German said:
He's been disappointing for over 2 seasons now, how long do you stick with a player who is underperforming and how long does it have to be until you say it is no longer considered a slump?

With regards to playing for Argentina, all due respect, but he has played 10 times, I could name plenty of players who have played more times for their country who are poor players, David Luiz for one has played over 50 times for Brazil. I'm not saying Lamela is poor, but I have come to the conclusion that he is not cut out for the league and he's unfortunately reached that point similar to Soldado where his confidence has deserted him. And judging by the atmosphere when he came on against Stoke, I think the majority of the WHL faithful have all but given up on him and some even turned on him.

No offence, but his coach is the same nationality as him, I'm sure has shown more faith and patience with him than Redknapp or AVB would have for example.
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1st season with all his injuries he hardly played, so I feel that is a little unfair, so he has had one full (second) season where he contributed to us finishing fifth and he led the way in our squad with the most assists, yes his goal return wasn't great but all in all....no he did not look like a 30m player granted. Although I saw enough to suggest there is more to come from him.

Everybody has different levels of patience as you can tell by reading back through this thread, I know we all SEE things differently but I genuinely have seen enough (not this season yet) to suggest he is worth waiting for. I do not understand why so many are ready to give up on our record signing just yet, its not the case where we saw Vlad and you could tell in 10 minutes he was woefully unsuitable for us or this league, I personally don't think this is the case with Erik, but I know you feel differently so fair enough.

with regards to the national team the point I was making is that someone who has been given the nod to be in and around the likes of Messi, Higuain, Di Maria, Lavezzi can hardly be classed as a useless player as some are making out. This part of my argument was directed to those who think he's just garbage. Playing for your national team is not proof that Lamela will get it right at spurs.

The price tag will never help, nor the impatience or negative vibes from our fans, however I think Pochettino will get the best out of Lamela, im sure of it.

You know my views and I have no issues with people who have lost the faith with him, I get it I understand, To me its just really frustrating that we haven't been able to bring out the best in him, I am not laying the blame all with Erik, since he's been here....three managers, upheaval, thats a lot for a young foreigner in a new country to be able to handle.

Anyway no more excuses, he will need to show more this season, and there are no excuses for his poor showing vs Stoke, He needs to do much better.

I dont consider myself greedy, I am quite content in life....but in all honesty if he starts peforming for spurs which means the media pipe down about him being a 30m flop I swear I would love it man! I would Love it! It would be great if he could ram all the criticism back down people's throats...of Course Erik needs to have the desire and application to make this a reality......we shall see.
 
Jurgen the German said:
He's been disappointing for over 2 seasons now, how long do you stick with a player who is underperforming and how long does it have to be until you say it is no longer considered a slump?

With regards to playing for Argentina, all due respect, but he has played 10 times, I could name plenty of players who have played more times for their country who are poor players, David Luiz for one has played over 50 times for Brazil. I'm not saying Lamela is poor, but I have come to the conclusion that he is not cut out for the league and he's unfortunately reached that point similar to Soldado where his confidence has deserted him. And judging by the atmosphere when he came on against Stoke, I think the majority of the WHL faithful have all but given up on him and some even turned on him.

No offence, but his coach is the same nationality as him, I'm sure has shown more faith and patience with him than Redknapp or AVB would have for example.
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That Paulinho has had a few games for Brazil too - and look how useful he was.
 
Nigeyman said:
1st season with all his injuries he hardly played, so I feel that is a little unfair, so he has had one full (second) season where he contributed to us finishing fifth and he led the way in our squad with the most assists, yes his goal return wasn't great but all in all....no he did not look like a 30m player granted. Although I saw enough to suggest there is more to come from him.

Everybody has different levels of patience as you can tell by reading back through this thread, I know we all SEE things differently but I genuinely have seen enough (not this season yet) to suggest he is worth waiting for. I do not understand why so many are ready to give up on our record signing just yet, its not the case where we saw Vlad and you could tell in 10 minutes he was woefully unsuitable for us or this league, I personally don't think this is the case with Erik, but I know you feel differently so fair enough.

with regards to the national team the point I was making is that someone who has been given the nod to be in and around the likes of Messi, Higuain, Di Maria, Lavezzi can hardly be classed as a useless player as some are making out. This part of my argument was directed to those who think he's just garbage. Playing for your national team is not proof that Lamela will get it right at spurs.

The price tag will never help, nor the impatience or negative vibes from our fans, however I think Pochettino will get the best out of Lamela, im sure of it.

You know my views and I have no issues with people who have lost the faith with him, I get it I understand, To me its just really frustrating that we haven't been able to bring out the best in him, I am not laying the blame all with Erik, since he's been here....three managers, upheaval, thats a lot for a young foreigner in a new country to be able to handle.

Anyway no more excuses, he will need to show more this season, and there are no excuses for his poor showing vs Stoke, He needs to do much better.

I dont consider myself greedy, I am quite content in life....but in all honesty if he starts peforming for spurs which means the media pipe down about him being a 30m flop I swear I would love it man! I would Love it! It would be great if he could ram all the criticism back down people's throats...of Course Erik needs to have the desire and application to make this a reality......we shall see.
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Well however many games he played his first season, this is still his 3rd year in England regardless of how many games he has played in total. Even when he was injured, he would have been on the bench watching the games up close to get some kind of feel for the pace of the league and the intensity.

I would say he barely contributed. I've said many times that I believe assists to be an overrated stat, even if they weren't, it's not like he got an overwhelmingly positive number of assists (think it was something like 5, a few of which were corners). That to me is like saying Adebayor contributed to us finishing 5th in AVB's first season when in reality he was useless.

I believe there is possibly some talent in there, but he certainly hasn't played anywhere near a level to be described as "talented".

I ask the question again, how long do you persist with a player who is chronically underperforming? Especially given that he now seems like a complete liability even coming off the bench when are winning.
 
Yeah you always say assist is an over rated stat and then you complain that we rely on Kane or Eriksen (or further back, Bale) to get us out of trouble ... If the team had more creativity in it then we wouldn't rely so much on a player digging us out of trouble on his own as the team would function better as a unit in attack.

So I find your attitude towards assists/creativity quite contradictory in light of that I have to say
 
billyiddo said:
Yeah you always say assist is an over rated stat and then you complain that we rely on Kane or Eriksen (or further back, Bale) to get us out of trouble ... If the team had more creativity in it then we wouldn't rely so much on a player digging us out of trouble on his own as the team would function better as a unit in attack.

So I find your attitude towards assists/creativity quite contradictory in light of that I have to say
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Erm, where have I said we do not need more creativity? Seriously, I'd love to know where I posted this. I just said that assists in themselves are overrated as you only get the credit if the player actually finishes the chance off. You could get an assist for playing a pass to a player who then beats 3 other players and drills it in the top corner from 20 yards.

Do you think Lamela is creative? Surely you cannot measure creativity on assists alone?
 
Further to the above, Gareth Bale never got loads of assists nor was he known as an assist player but I don't believe anyone would argue for a second that he wasn't creative.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Erm, where have I said we do not need more creativity? Seriously, I'd love to know where I posted this. I just said that assists in themselves are overrated as you only get the credit if the player actually finishes the chance off. You could get an assist for playing a pass to a player who then beats 3 other players and drills it in the top corner from 20 yards.

Do you think Lamela is creative? Surely you cannot measure creativity on assists alone?
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I have explained this so many times I've lost count - I'm not basing anything purely on an assist stat (or any stat for that matter), I am am using all the relevant data to help back my opinion up that Lamela is creative - yes I believe he was one of our most creative players last season, I saw that with my own eyes, I saw him consistently creating openings with clever through balls and quick one/two's - he created more chances than anyone bar Eriksen had the most assists and one of the highest key pass counts as well - all those things together show a creative player, I can sit here and write my subjective opinion as much as the next man but when people point blank disagree that he's a creative player then it's easier just to show the numbers and ask them you to refute them, after all I am the one who has backed my opinion up with something objective ... how can a player create so many chances and assist more goals than anyone in our team and yet be described as uncreative or offering 'nothing other than defending'?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Erm, where have I said we do not need more creativity? Seriously, I'd love to know where I posted this. I just said that assists in themselves are overrated as you only get the credit if the player actually finishes the chance off. You could get an assist for playing a pass to a player who then beats 3 other players and drills it in the top corner from 20 yards.

Do you think Lamela is creative? Surely you cannot measure creativity on assists alone?
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I absolutely agree with you that assists alone do not tell the whole story.

I used Squaka to get some stats on chances created and key passes http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m.../key_passes/goals_scored/fouls_suffered#total

I think this goes to validate @billyiddo 's claims that Lamela is actually quite creative and favours well against Mata and Ozil, when he does not have the experience of either of those two. This is why I think that some people are hoping/thinking that he may just not be the lost cause that others seem to think that he is.
 
Just a little modification to your Squawka chart Gazza:

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...d/key_passes/goals_scored/fouls_suffered%2390

Now being GG I have to add in the disclaimer that I'm not basing my opinion on these stats, I'm just using them to support my opinion - it would be interesting to hear some arguments from the other side as to how Lamela isn't a creative player though - so far I haven't actually seen anyone offer up any actual reasons as to why that's the case
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
He has done, but none of the people that think he is **** want to believe it.
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I gave the guy a chance, but the fact that i have watched football over the 37 years of my life and have seen the odd good player has led me to the opinion that he is brick.

If you can't dribble with the ball, have no pace, can't hold it up and get easily brushed off the ball, what's the point?
 
billyiddo said:
Just a little modification to your Squawka chart Gazza:

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...d/key_passes/goals_scored/fouls_suffered%2390
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A much better representation! ;)

Now, before people get all uppity, this does not mean that I think that Lamela is better than Mata, Ozil or Hazard! What it is showing is that he has shown creative qualities that I think are going unmentioned in the stinging criticism of him. He is NOT brick! He is young, he needs to bulk up a bit and he needs to improve his decision making.
 
billyiddo said:
I have explained this so many times I've lost count - I'm not basing anything purely on an assist stat (or any stat for that matter), I am am using all the relevant data to help back my opinion up that Lamela is creative - yes I believe he was one of our most creative players last season, I saw that with my own eyes, I saw him consistently creating openings with clever through balls and quick one/two's - he created more chances than anyone bar Eriksen had the most assists and one of the highest key pass counts as well - all those things together show a creative player, I can sit here and write my subjective opinion as much as the next man but when people point blank disagree that he's a creative player then it's easier just to show the numbers and ask them you to refute them, after all I am the one who has backed my opinion up with something objective ... how can a player create so many chances and assist more goals than anyone in our team and yet be described as uncreative or offering 'nothing other than defending'?
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Well that's where we will have to differ. Just because he was our 2nd/3rd most creative player doesn't necessarily mean he can be described as "creative". For the record, Chadli doesn't create enough either but he chips in with his fair share of goals and in general making very good runs into the box into goalscoring positions. I don't know why you've chosen to get so stroppy with my post above. I think everyone would agree that Saturday was a new low for Lamela. I would settle for him just being creative and not scoring at this moment in time and being a steady Eddie rather than being such a liability like he was at the weekend.
 
Roy1983 said:
Sorry bud as with everyone else totally disagree. I've watched him play every minute of every game he's played in (Not saying you haven't either btw) he doesn't offer diddly squat.

I'd love to see what you see!
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Ha! That's fair enough. As I have said a number of times, I'm just an eternal optimist. I will also say that I don't think he is top, top quality. I am just not going to write him off and call him brick etc....
 
Jurgen the German said:
Erm, where have I said we do not need more creativity? Seriously, I'd love to know where I posted this. I just said that assists in themselves are overrated as you only get the credit if the player actually finishes the chance off. You could get an assist for playing a pass to a player who then beats 3 other players and drills it in the top corner from 20 yards.

Do you think Lamela is creative? Surely you cannot measure creativity on assists alone?
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Equally you could not get an assist when you yourself skin 3 players and cut the ball back for Soldado to miss from 5 yards. So yeh, you have to go with a feel for the type of player he is.

IMO he is a obviously a creative player looking at the things he tries on the pitch (when he isn't playing absolutely dog brick), he's just not playing well so therefore he's not actually creating anything at the moment. That doesn't change the type of player he is (well, tries to be).
 
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