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10 spurs fans stabbed by masked gang

Can we all stop with the holier than thou flimflam

Constantly going on like we're being persecuted every time we hear an offensive chant is pathetic. We're every bit as bad as the rest of them. Some of the things i have heard our lot chant are a low as i've heard. That's football

Was definitely a atmosphere out on the street around N17 today. Massive police presence
 
Can we all stop with the holier than thou flimflam

Constantly going on like we're being persecuted every time we hear an offensive chant is pathetic. We're every bit as bad as the rest of them. Some of the things i have heard our lot chant are a low as i've heard. That's football

Was definitely a atmosphere out on the street around N17 today. Massive police presence
How can we be as bad as West Ham, Chelsea and Leeds when they're worse than everyone else. Spurs fans are no angels, but making fun of the Holocaust and goading stab victims is up there with the worst.
 
When we play West Ham and Chelsea I have never understood how the Police don't have camera's on those away fans for every minute of the game. A bit like what happened to the ridiculous spacegoats for that Sol Campbell song.
 
How can we be as bad as West Ham, Chelsea and Leeds when they're worse than everyone else. Spurs fans are no angels, but making fun of the Holocaust and goading stab victims is up there with the worst.


THis, we're not perfect, but some clubs are just lower then low.
 
Can we all stop with the holier than thou flimflam

Constantly going on like we're being persecuted every time we hear an offensive chant is pathetic. We're every bit as bad as the rest of them. Some of the things i have heard our lot chant are a low as i've heard. That's football

Was definitely a atmosphere out on the street around N17 today. Massive police presence

Yesterday ???

The police were a joke at the end, letting the hammers fans sing and say what they want, I saw a spurs fan give the hammers fans the finger and he got a gonading as did one for running for his train WTF
 
How can we be as bad as West Ham, Chelsea and Leeds when they're worse than everyone else. Spurs fans are no angels, but making fun of the Holocaust and goading stab victims is up there with the worst.

Chants about Campbell's dead Dad shortly after he died any better?
 
Can we all stop with the holier than thou flimflam

Constantly going on like we're being persecuted every time we hear an offensive chant is pathetic. We're every bit as bad as the rest of them. Some of the things i have heard our lot chant are a low as i've heard. That's football

Was definitely a atmosphere out on the street around N17 today. Massive police presence

This is different. There is a context to this, specifically the criticism we are getting for use of the word "yid". Maybe it's ok, maybe it's not but as a result its a free for all on us now.

But fine, lets laugh it off and accept hitler this, gas chamber that. And enjoy that nasty atmosphere outside the ground, who cares if a few more might people get knifed while just out supporting their club? Those lads in Rome were just out having a drink but so long as people like you can enjoy that tension in the air it's alright is it?
 
This is different. There is a context to this, specifically the criticism we are getting for use of the word "yid". Maybe it's ok, maybe it's not but as a result its a free for all on us now.

But fine, lets laugh it off and accept hitler this, gas chamber that. And enjoy that nasty atmosphere outside the ground, who cares if a few more might people get knifed while just out supporting their club? Those lads in Rome were just out having a drink but so long as people like you can enjoy that tension in the air it's alright is it?

People like me? You don't know me pal. Where have a i said i enjoyed the tension in the air? Stop being so dramatic

The point i was making is its pathetic to be jumping up and down in outrage at a few songs others make when we don't condemn our own who are every bit as guilty. You really think if we played away at Chelsea or Arsenal a couple of days after their fans got attacked abroad we wouldn't be revelling in it?
 
People like me? You don't know me pal. Where have a i said i enjoyed the tension in the air? Stop being so dramatic

The point i was making is its pathetic to be jumping up and down in outrage at a few songs others make when we don't condemn our own who are every bit as guilty. You really think if we played away at Chelsea or Arsenal a couple of days after their fans got attacked abroad we wouldn't be revelling in it?


You would be reveling in it?

I know i fudging wouldn't. There's a healthy rivalry and then there's just being a c*nt.
 
^ not personally fussed about them singing the Lazio chants - the Hitler and Gas stuff crosses the line though

Gotta wonder what their grandads would have thought about them singing the name of the man they no doubt fought in the war. And Viva Lazio? Sounds like they need to brush up on their Italian :D
 
You would be reveling in it?

I know i fudging wouldn't. There's a healthy rivalry and then there's just being a c*nt.

No, i wouldn't but there would definitely be a section of our support that would, i have no doubt about that.

You'd think we're Norwich the way some go on on here.
 
People like me? You don't know me pal. Where have a i said i enjoyed the tension in the air? Stop being so dramatic

The point i was making is its pathetic to be jumping up and down in outrage at a few songs others make when we don't condemn our own who are every bit as guilty. You really think if we played away at Chelsea or Arsenal a couple of days after their fans got attacked abroad we wouldn't be revelling in it?
But they're not every bit as guilty? Get that in your head. Just because we've sung a few vile songs down the years, it will never match up to other teams doing Hitler salutes (we fought against the Nazis, not with them), gas chamber noises, singing about Auschwitz etc. You're blowing this well out of proportion mate. The blood is fresh in the water (literally) - we were only in Rome a few days ago. As we have said before, there ARE sections of our support that are mindless idiots who will chant sick stuff - but the likes of Chelsea and West Ham have done it every game we've played them in for the last GHod knows how many years.

Perspective.

I'm gonna condemn West Ham and Lazio because I was 20 yards away from where a few of our lads were stabbed and if one of our party had finished his beers a bit quicker we would have moved into that pub.

West Ham had a chance to show a bit of solidarity with their fellow Brits but they've fudged that up. fudge West Ham United and fudge Waffen S.S. Lazio
 
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People like me? You don't know me pal. Where have a i said i enjoyed the tension in the air? Stop being so dramatic

The point i was making is its pathetic to be jumping up and down in outrage at a few songs others make when we don't condemn our own who are every bit as guilty. You really think if we played away at Chelsea or Arsenal a couple of days after their fans got attacked abroad we wouldn't be revelling in it?

1) great, the old "you don't even know me" gonads. No I don't know you but I read what you post.
To be fair, it seems I misread your last line about the atmosphere after the game and I apologise. But the general feel of your post seemed to be that you saw it as not a big deal, and to me it came across that the general feel and police presence was a good thing.

2) I don't see it as just "a few songs" there is a context to this.
3) I don't know if you can compare other clubs the same way. But what if West Ham got beat up by another club? Yes maybe we would taunt but honestly, no it would not to be the same extent. Indeed, part of the context of this IS that there appears to be an alliance between Lazio and West Ham.
 
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1) great, the old "you don't even know me" gonads. No I don't know you but I read what you post.
To be fair, it seems I misread your last line about the atmosphere after the game and I apologise. But the general feel of your post seemed to be that you saw it as not a big deal, and to me it came across that the general feel and police presence was a good thing.

2) I don't see it as just "a few songs" there is a context to this.
3) I don't know if you can compare other clubs the same way. But what if West Ham got beat up by another club? Yes maybe we would taunt but honestly, no it would not to be the same extent. Indeed, part of the context of this IS that there appears to be an alliance between Lazio and West Ham.

You read what i post incorrectly yet still form an opinion about the kind of person i am based on it? Good one!

I'm not defending West Ham here, just think its a little rose tinted to be talking about them like we're that much better. The Hitler stuff and hissing (which i didn't hear myself yesterday) is over the mark and should be punished. All i heard with my own ears was the Lazio / stabbing stuff but having heard ours singing about Bobby Moore / Pakki's at West Ham in the past i can't get too moral about it all and think some of us should look closer to home when getting massively outraged about crowd behaviour.
 
[h=1]Antisemitic chants are sickening – and West Ham fans must show they care[/h] For a West Ham fan, there is nothing bigger than a match against Tottenham. Yet on Sunday, as the Spurs goals flew in, I found myself not caring very much about the outcome


Soccer---Barclays-Premier-008.jpg
To label West Ham a racist or antisemitic club would be wrong yet they might have to accept any punishment that comes their way from the Football Association. Photograph: Rebecca Naden/PA

Eight years ago, I was in my usual seat in the lower tier of the Bobby Moore Stand with a few friends for a nondescript Championship match between West Ham and Plymouth. Indeed the match was thoroughly forgettable, West Ham cruising to a 5-0 win, and yet the events of that day will never leave me. It had nothing to do with the football and everything to do with the vicious anti-semitic abuse and intimidation a friend and I experienced from our fellow supporters.
Midway through the first half the usual anti-Tottenham songs started. They were nothing to get offended about; just typical football songs. West Ham fans tend to sing about Chelsea and Spurs every week. Just banter. Nothing to worry about – until someone tried to get a chant of "Hitler was a ****ney" going. The implications were clear: Hitler supported West Ham because he killed Jews and Jews support Tottenham. The fact that the song came from one person did not make it any less shocking and the fact that there were two Jewish West Ham fans sitting in front of him, not that he was to know, did not bother the perpetrator. Nor did the fact that the Nazis flattened the East End during World War Two. Some ****ney.
It can be preferable to bite your lip – I was only 17 but my friend, who was older, turned around and told the idiot to "fudge off". Unfortunately he deigned not to and the abuse threatened to turn physical from him and his mates as they tried to snatch my friend's season ticket away and told us to "fudge off to Tottenham". Luckily our group was large enough to stop anything truly ugly developing and the stewards also weighed in. The way our friends defended us showed the inherent decentness of West Ham fans, as did a number of people we did not know offering their support at the next home match. Even so, when I arrive at Upton Park on Saturday for the Chelsea game I will probably spot some of the same people from that February afternoon and the memories will come flooding back.
Maybe they were the same people who brought shame to West Ham with the unforgivable antisemitic chants that blighted Sunday's match at White Hart Lane, not to mention the glorifying of attacks on Spurs supporters by Italian supporters in Rome last week which left one supporter fighting for his life in hospital. Nazi salutes, hissing to mimic the gas chambers and chants of "Adolf Hitler, he's coming for you", "You're getting gassed in the morning" and "Viva Lazio". Believe it or not, and it is astounding that this still needs saying, the Holocaust is not funny.
A look at West Ham messageboards on Monday reveals the usual mealy-mouthed apologists spouting stone-age drivel about the sanitisation of football and political correctness gone mad. Yet if we are to accept that it was only a minority who disgraced themselves, it is also true that this minority are the ones who shout loudest – and perhaps punch hardest when challenged.
Antisemitism and racism has existed at West Ham for years. Before a playoff semi-final away to Ipswich in 2004, I heard a chant of "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's gonna gas them again." No one did anything. There is a chant mocking Spurs fans for having no foreskins that ends with a cry of "fudging Jew".
People call Carlton Cole a black bastard. When Jermain Defoe missed a last-minute chance during a draw with Burnley in 2003, the person in front of me lost the plot, kicking the chair in front of him and screaming racial abuse. During a match against Everton in 2010, Cole missed a late sitter, prompting one fan to bellow that he was a "fudging nigger". He's still there every week.
Football is a working-class sport and its blokiness means that people do not want to be seen as a grass or a snitch. You could tell a steward but chances are people will know and that creates its own problems. Ultimately is it worth the hassle? How do you reason with someone who thinks that the industrialised murder of six million Jews is an acceptable way to score points against Tottenham fans?
Yet it needs people to be brave enough to stand up to this. It is no good doing nothing during the match and then taking to the internet to write it off as a minority action afterwards, because the whole club is tarred by association. It is no good to claim these people are not true West Ham fans, because that is merely a semantic debate which moves the goalposts. They were at the game supporting West Ham. Sounds like a West Ham fan to me. That is not to suggest that the majority are not sickened by what occurred but they must show it and not retreat into the default position all fans assume when their club is in the dock.
Of course, supporters can only do so much and stewards and police actively need to be on the look-out for this sort of behaviour. Those identified should be thrown out and banned for life. To label West Ham a racist or antisemitic club would be wrong yet they might have to accept any punishment that comes their way from the Football Association, even if they cannot truly be held responsible for the actions of macarons who bought a ticket.
The irony is that West Ham is a club with a Jewish heritage, albeit not as pronounced as Tottenham's, whose fans call themselves the Yid Army to counteract the jibes. The co-chairman, David Gold, is Jewish, they have had a Jewish manager, Avram Grant, they have a Jewish player, Yossi Benayoun, and there are many Jewish supporters. Spurs are seen as The Jewish Club, but not every Spurs fan is a Jew and not every Jew is a Spurs fan. Some will say that Spurs fans are asking for it by calling themselves Yids; again this simply feels like a roundabout way to justify the abuse.
For a West Ham fan, there is nothing bigger than a match against Tottenham. Yet on Sunday, as the Spurs goals flew in, I found myself not caring very much about the outcome. It is a crisis of identity; part of the thrill of supporting a side is the sense of belonging, the rush of being part of a crowd, a community, but that does not feel particularly appealing now. What would make me happy – West Ham winning – would also make these people happy and how can that make me happy?
 
Daily Mail Football @MAILfootball

BREAKING: Two West Ham fans - one a season ticket holder - arrested following anti-Semitic chanting at Tottenham
 
[h=1]Antisemitic chants are sickening – and West Ham fans must show they care[/h] For a West Ham fan, there is nothing bigger than a match against Tottenham. Yet on Sunday, as the Spurs goals flew in, I found myself not caring very much about the outcome


Soccer---Barclays-Premier-008.jpg
To label West Ham a racist or antisemitic club would be wrong yet they might have to accept any punishment that comes their way from the Football Association. Photograph: Rebecca Naden/PA

Eight years ago, I was in my usual seat in the lower tier of the Bobby Moore Stand with a few friends for a nondescript Championship match between West Ham and Plymouth. Indeed the match was thoroughly forgettable, West Ham cruising to a 5-0 win, and yet the events of that day will never leave me. It had nothing to do with the football and everything to do with the vicious anti-semitic abuse and intimidation a friend and I experienced from our fellow supporters.
Midway through the first half the usual anti-Tottenham songs started. They were nothing to get offended about; just typical football songs. West Ham fans tend to sing about Chelsea and Spurs every week. Just banter. Nothing to worry about – until someone tried to get a chant of "Hitler was a ****ney" going. The implications were clear: Hitler supported West Ham because he killed Jews and Jews support Tottenham. The fact that the song came from one person did not make it any less shocking and the fact that there were two Jewish West Ham fans sitting in front of him, not that he was to know, did not bother the perpetrator. Nor did the fact that the Nazis flattened the East End during World War Two. Some ****ney.
It can be preferable to bite your lip – I was only 17 but my friend, who was older, turned around and told the idiot to "fudge off". Unfortunately he deigned not to and the abuse threatened to turn physical from him and his mates as they tried to snatch my friend's season ticket away and told us to "fudge off to Tottenham". Luckily our group was large enough to stop anything truly ugly developing and the stewards also weighed in. The way our friends defended us showed the inherent decentness of West Ham fans, as did a number of people we did not know offering their support at the next home match. Even so, when I arrive at Upton Park on Saturday for the Chelsea game I will probably spot some of the same people from that February afternoon and the memories will come flooding back.
Maybe they were the same people who brought shame to West Ham with the unforgivable antisemitic chants that blighted Sunday's match at White Hart Lane, not to mention the glorifying of attacks on Spurs supporters by Italian supporters in Rome last week which left one supporter fighting for his life in hospital. Nazi salutes, hissing to mimic the gas chambers and chants of "Adolf Hitler, he's coming for you", "You're getting gassed in the morning" and "Viva Lazio". Believe it or not, and it is astounding that this still needs saying, the Holocaust is not funny.
A look at West Ham messageboards on Monday reveals the usual mealy-mouthed apologists spouting stone-age drivel about the sanitisation of football and political correctness gone mad. Yet if we are to accept that it was only a minority who disgraced themselves, it is also true that this minority are the ones who shout loudest – and perhaps punch hardest when challenged.
Antisemitism and racism has existed at West Ham for years. Before a playoff semi-final away to Ipswich in 2004, I heard a chant of "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's gonna gas them again." No one did anything. There is a chant mocking Spurs fans for having no foreskins that ends with a cry of "fudging Jew".
People call Carlton Cole a black bastard. When Jermain Defoe missed a last-minute chance during a draw with Burnley in 2003, the person in front of me lost the plot, kicking the chair in front of him and screaming racial abuse. During a match against Everton in 2010, Cole missed a late sitter, prompting one fan to bellow that he was a "fudging nigger". He's still there every week.
Football is a working-class sport and its blokiness means that people do not want to be seen as a grass or a snitch. You could tell a steward but chances are people will know and that creates its own problems. Ultimately is it worth the hassle? How do you reason with someone who thinks that the industrialised murder of six million Jews is an acceptable way to score points against Tottenham fans?
Yet it needs people to be brave enough to stand up to this. It is no good doing nothing during the match and then taking to the internet to write it off as a minority action afterwards, because the whole club is tarred by association. It is no good to claim these people are not true West Ham fans, because that is merely a semantic debate which moves the goalposts. They were at the game supporting West Ham. Sounds like a West Ham fan to me. That is not to suggest that the majority are not sickened by what occurred but they must show it and not retreat into the default position all fans assume when their club is in the dock.
Of course, supporters can only do so much and stewards and police actively need to be on the look-out for this sort of behaviour. Those identified should be thrown out and banned for life. To label West Ham a racist or antisemitic club would be wrong yet they might have to accept any punishment that comes their way from the Football Association, even if they cannot truly be held responsible for the actions of macarons who bought a ticket.
The irony is that West Ham is a club with a Jewish heritage, albeit not as pronounced as Tottenham's, whose fans call themselves the Yid Army to counteract the jibes. The co-chairman, David Gold, is Jewish, they have had a Jewish manager, Avram Grant, they have a Jewish player, Yossi Benayoun, and there are many Jewish supporters. Spurs are seen as The Jewish Club, but not every Spurs fan is a Jew and not every Jew is a Spurs fan. Some will say that Spurs fans are asking for it by calling themselves Yids; again this simply feels like a roundabout way to justify the abuse.
For a West Ham fan, there is nothing bigger than a match against Tottenham. Yet on Sunday, as the Spurs goals flew in, I found myself not caring very much about the outcome. It is a crisis of identity; part of the thrill of supporting a side is the sense of belonging, the rush of being part of a crowd, a community, but that does not feel particularly appealing now. What would make me happy – West Ham winning – would also make these people happy and how can that make me happy?

A hammers fan with a brain
 
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