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Mathys Tel

SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Tel was not included in the first CL squad in September when the first registration deadline passed. He was added because of injuries which gave us the opportunity to do that months in, and then Solanke replaced him again for the final games.

Also…talk about false equivalence. Frank HAD to leave someone out because of a regulation, and it had to be one of the foreign players. RDZ does not need to leave Richy out of the squad, he’s choosing to do it.

I think choosing to leave Tel out against Villa is fairly similar to choosing to leave Richy out overall, when the argument is about optionality.
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I just said i thought it was a better comparison, i didn't claim for it to be the same.

You know, leaving a player out of the Euro squad entirely / the league squad entirely vs a one off game while retaining the opportunity to select the player again.
 
billyiddo said:
I just said i thought it was a better comparison, i didn't claim for it to be the same.

You know, leaving a player out of the Euro squad entirely / the league squad entirely vs a one off game while retaining the opportunity to select the player again.
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You felt it fair enough to call mine a ‘false equivalence’ while asserting your own example. I would think your own example needs to avoid being seen as a false equivalence itself. Also, you were incorrect on when Tel was not registered for the CL. My worry with how Tel was treated was that at that time we had just permanently signed a top prospect who we’d hope would be with us for years, and something like that would likely hasten his departure before he had a chance to really prove himself. So in effect, not giving us the opportunity to have him longer term. Where as Richy has already said he wants to leave.

Again, I get your point about optionally, that’s the same argument for registering Richy too. My point is, is the coach trying to accrue a benefit that is different to optionality? You may disagree that such a benefit exists, but I think it does. In the case of not registering Richy, I think there is a standards point that should impact the players more broadly. In the case of Tel, it would seem like he hasn’t been following instructions.

My whole point with all of this is that yes, all things being equal, it would be better to have as many options as possible. But all things are not equal, and sometimes the club or the coach is trying to do something beyond just having the option available. It might be culture, standards, it might be a reminder that they will not play unless they follow instructions. These decisions are taken in the knowledge that it may make the immediate term more difficult, but will be better longer term. And I think that’s where Richy and Tel are similar. I made the comparison because the argument for registering Richy is that it would have been better to have the option. But clearly as we’ve seen with Tel yesterday, it isn’t always better to have the option in the coaches’ view.
 
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thfcsteff said:
For all the hand-wringing around this player, I wish he'd been available yesterday. He fights, gives full effort, and does a lot more work than people think. I agree with those who say they'd rather he'd have been given a shot at CF for the flagging Solanke at some stage yesterday.
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Personally I’m desperate for him to succeed. I really like Tel. The effort he gave at the end of last season was really clear. I think he has talent. But I think what you’ve said here is also a good comparison to Richy. There is this idea that Richy always worked hard and would see out his contract working hard. That much is likely true.

Tel also gives full effort, fight, and works very hard. But is he following instructions well enough? If he isn’t doing that, for a guy like De Zerbi who needs that buy in, he’s going to get less minutes. I feel like it’s not just the hard work, it’s really buying in to the system. And that is why these actions are taken, like leaving a fully fit player who has started most of our games this season in the stands.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Personally I’m desperate for him to succeed. I really like Tel. The effort he gave at the end of last season was really clear. I think he has talent. But I think what you’ve said here is also a good comparison to Richy. There is this idea that Richy always worked hard and would see out his contract working hard. That much is likely true.

Tel also gives full effort, fight, and works very hard. But is he following instructions well enough? If he isn’t doing that, for a guy like De Zerbi who needs that buy in, he’s going to get less minutes. I feel like it’s not just the hard work, it’s really buying in to the system. And that is why these actions are taken, like leaving a fully fit player who has started most of our games this season in the stands.
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I agree with the whole De Zerbi buy-in thing.
Where I disagree is on Tel following instruction. I think he might be actually following it a little too much, to the point where he is now caught between natural game and De Zerbi game. Where the lines are crossed is I think sometimes RDZ wants him to gamble more when on the left, but often he is immediately doubled up and probably does not want to risk losing the ball. That stuff on the pitch after Everton? It's based on 10 mins of him being at CF, having been on the left. I am going to hope that is not the reason for yesterday. If so, there has to be more to it i.e. behind the scenes thing.
 
Baleforce said:
Having a principled stance is fine, but if it’s inconsistent that’s toxic.

Let’s see if van hecke’s abysmal effort yesterday gets treated in the same way…

I wouldn’t bet on it.
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Don’t disagree with you here. He’s already hooked Fernandes for not giving what he wants so I’m not seeing any inconsistency so far. It’s not as if it’s a new signings vs old guys thing. Seems like RDZ was pretty fudged off with how we managed to concede the second from a goal kick having worked on Villa’s long balls all week.
 
thfcsteff said:
For all the hand-wringing around this player, I wish he'd been available yesterday. He fights, gives full effort, and does a lot more work than people think. I agree with those who say they'd rather he'd have been given a shot at CF for the flagging Solanke at some stage yesterday.
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I don’t think the outcome of the game would have been much different had Tel been involved.
 
Sandman said:
he has one trick. Run fast, then turn back inside and either lay it off or try to move over the box to have a shot. That is it. As soon as you just block his path inside he is done. he has to lay it off. Not once have I seen him beat a man on the outside and cross with his left. You have to have that in your lock if you are going to keep the right back honest. And he does not. So last night was a game he just passed it off inside every single time. And he is supposed to be a winger.

he is not learning. He is not getting better. If RDZ sees Savio as a right winger then where is Kudus going? becuase they are our best two wingers.
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that's how you learn i guess.
the issue is rdz not tel imo.
if tel is not ready, rdz should know.

right now i am starting to doubt if rdz really knows his players well enough, or are all of them still a work in progress.
 
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