Richarlison

[billyiddo]

That’s all fine mate. Fair opinions. I happen to disagree because I believe that the cultural and behavioural standards impacts will benefit us longer term, and we shouldn’t be rewarding unprofessional behaviour. Having a slow start doesn’t change that in my view.

They have created the situation, and I’m glad they did. I do not think we are missing Richy, and I don’t think we need to be rewarding unprofessional behaviour.

None of this also doesn’t change the fact that you went on at me for pages, misrepresenting what I had said and done.

Ok

 

[Bishop]

So your challenge if you choose to accept. We made 5 big signings this summer. Which one would you sacrifice to get the number 9 or would you be able to find a Senesi/Robbo type free transfer.

For me, this is the challenge our club had. There is a dearth of good strikers around as well, and that was probably the determining factor why the club offered Richi a new deal to buy more time. He was probably feeling that he didn't want to be a squad player in our setup and declined.

There is a lot of grey area in this topic, but the crystal clear black and white piece is Richi's unprofessionalism using social media. Therefore I'm backing the club's stance 100%.

Savio as we are pointlessly playing him on the right. If that was our intention then I'd have given that signing a miss and gone for Ramos or Jackson.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Personally not seeing him stinking up the place is a boon for me.

I like you I think would have kept Lankshear not because I think he'd neccesarily be the answer but options are a good thing to have.

I just don't consider Richy someone who is an option anymore. I would have signed Balogun or David, or ideally Ramos or Jackson. Hell I would have taken Welbeck over either of them.

My transfer window suggestion of Jackson looked good today…. Just saying!…

 

[Lemonade Money]

My transfer window suggestion of Jackson looked good today…. Just saying!…

Who was he playing against?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Would you not expect a standard of behaviour from a staff member on the forum that is a little bit higher? That is a good example? That makes the place feel welcoming, engaging, and that all opinions can be respectfully heard? Rather than accusing me of misrepresenting others, and of talking gonads, and refusing to let it go while simultaneously accusing me of dying on a hill and actually being the one doing the misrepresenting themselves.

A few years ago maybe.

 

[spurspinter1]

Why is the manager being asked about Richarlison? The matter is settled for the next 3 months +. He’s being asked because there’s an assumption out there that we’d have better results if he was in the team. If RDZ was to say there is a way back, it would be an insinuation that the players he has and trusts and has belief in don’t actually have his full belief. He could choose to say no comment, but I think he’s choosing the opportunity to put forward his own narrative.

I don’t think I’m being disingenuous by arguing that the longer term benefits of building a culture where everyone is fully bought in, and where the club has a level of trust with their players where if they facilitate moves and move to sign replacements that these deals can go through, and won’t be held up by point scoring. Many people think the culture thing is nothing - fine. I happen to disagree.

How on earth is it professional for Richy to go to social media and go against the manager and the club? And insinuate we’re not doing right by him by agreeing a deal with Everton, after he’s asked to leave? It is obviously unprofessional. And I think we need to stop being a club where crap like this is tolerated.

You're not even responding to what I've said, word salad and straw manning, but you don't need to be told that do you now.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

A few years ago maybe.

Under Scara? I loved the bloke, but come on now

 

[Finney Is Back]

Who was he playing against?

played well didn’t he?

Was only really dealing with long balls and scraps but got Villa up the pitch with them, ran the channels, ram in behind, was a nuisance and got a goal. We’d be a much better team with him up top instead of Solanke.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

played well didn’t he?

Was only really dealing with long balls and scraps but got Villa up the pitch with them, ran the channels, ram in behind, was a nuisance and got a goal. We’d be a much better team with him up top instead of Solanke.

Failure on our part not to go out and get another Striker, let alone Jackson (who I admit I may be wrong about)

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

You're not even responding to what I've said, word salad and straw manning, but you don't need to be told that do you now.

Sorry mate but I’ve just read your post back, and mine, and I think I’ve responded perfectly well to exactly what you’ve said.

You talked about why the coach might be frustrated about a narrative, I explained what I meant. You talked about at least having Richy has an option, I offered an alternative perspective on the benefits we might accrue culturally by not registering him. And you talked about how you didn’t feel that Richy’s social media posts were that bad, and I offered my opinion that they were clearly unprofessional.

You don’t have to agree with me, but all of this ‘word salad’ ‘strawmanning’ ‘you don’t need to be told that do you’ is all a bit high school. I think we can all be served by trying to engage in the debate and see the other side. I’m not saying I’m right, but I’m offering an alternate perspective from a different side of the argument. It’s an extremely weird vibe on here to be hounded for that.

 

[spurspinter1]

Sorry mate but I’ve just read your post back, and mine, and I think I’ve responded perfectly well to exactly what you’ve said.

You talked about why the coach might be frustrated about a narrative, I explained what I meant. You talked about at least having Richy has an option, I offered an alternative perspective on the benefits we might accrue culturally by not registering him. And you talked about how you didn’t feel that Richy’s social media posts were that bad, and I offered my opinion that they were clearly unprofessional.

You don’t have to agree with me, but all of this ‘word salad’ ‘strawmanning’ ‘you don’t need to be told that do you’ is all a bit high school. I think we can all be served by trying to engage in the debate and see the other side. I’m not saying I’m right, but I’m offering an alternate perspective from a different side of the argument. It’s an extremely weird vibe on here to be hounded for that.

No need to apologise good sir! You needn't analyse the exchange unless it's fun for you. I don't recall saying something about the manager thinking there's a narrative tbh. I'm realising it's just better to leave you to it, especially if you've felt hounded by being called out on BS pretend arguments nobody has made.

The key point that remains is that this situation isn't benefitting the club or player. We'd still be brick if Richy was in the squad but a little bit less brick. Furthermore, it's more fun to support players you like as people, and there's a personality / charisma vacuum in the squad bar Maddison. Obviously it's about results but the human side matters as well to me.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

No need to apologise good sir! You needn't analyse the exchange unless it's fun for you. I don't recall saying something about the manager thinking there's a narrative tbh. I'm realising it's just better to leave you to it, especially if you've felt hounded by being called out on BS pretend arguments nobody has made.

The key point that remains is that this situation isn't benefitting the club or player. We'd still be brick if Richy was in the squad but a little bit less brick. Furthermore, it's more fun to support players you like as people, and there's a personality / charisma vacuum in the squad bar Maddison. Obviously it's about results but the human side matters as well to me.

The first line of your post - ‘why would the players get annoyed by something nobody has said’. The discussion with that was around the narrative that RDZ might have been trying to nip in the bud by being asked that question by a journalist. I was explaining why I thought he might have answered the wisdom that way.

I respect your opinion on Richy. I just think he’s been unprofessional and I can understand why the club have thought it best to keep him out. I’m curious if people have the same energy about Tel? He was left in the stands yesterday. Were we weaker because of it, or was there good reason?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Under Scara? I loved the bloke, but come on now

Not Scara himself, but the mods used to be more active in dispute resolution and were more proactive in lowering the temperature when things got heated.

 

[thfcsteff]

So your challenge if you choose to accept. We made 5 big signings this summer. Which one would you sacrifice to get the number 9 or would you be able to find a Senesi/Robbo type free transfer.

Did we need Senesi AND Davies?

For me, this is the challenge our club had. There is a dearth of good strikers around as well, and that was probably the determining factor why the club offered Richi a new deal to buy more time. He was probably feeling that he didn't want to be a squad player in our setup and declined.

We fudged it. We should've determined early doors that we had no intention of keeping him if possible unless he signed the extension/new deal. We should not have taken him on pre-season. We should've done this like we did with Spence and Vic.

There is a lot of grey area in this topic, but the crystal clear black and white piece is Richi's unprofessionalism using social media. Therefore I'm backing the club's stance 100%.

I think it's very unprofessional to treat the player like we did in the first place. Where was the clarity? Regardless, why do we then say inflammatory things? We are keenly aware (as a club) of Richy's personality and his social media. Doesn't matter if he conducts himself in a way we think is fitting, we need to be aware of all angles as to how something mishandled could play out. I have no issue with the club's stance on him, I do have a big issue with how they went about applying it/IMO fudging it up. They were doing so well on the 'moving players out' front too.

 

[thfcsteff]

The first line of your post - ‘why would the players get annoyed by something nobody has said’. The discussion with that was around the narrative that RDZ might have been trying to nip in the bud by being asked that question by a journalist. I was explaining why I thought he might have answered the wisdom that way.

I respect your opinion on Richy. I just think he’s been unprofessional and I can understand why the club have thought it best to keep him out. I’m curious if people have the same energy about Tel? He was left in the stands yesterday. Were we weaker because of it, or was there good reason?

They're such different situations.
I'd ask you to look at the Richy one not from whether he should or shouldn't be in the squad, but from the 'why was he part of RDZ's plans/loved by the manager on pre-season tour' IF we had no real intention of keeping him or even using him much? Why did we not identify all angles of the situation in the summer during the close season? And why -having been seemingly suddenly told we want him to leave because we want to sell him- should he just accept what we're telling him we want him to do? This could all have been done efficiently at the start of the summer. Tel was quite obviously always in the manager's plans and continues to be (it appears). If he increasingly is not, I would expect the club to have the situation in hand and ready to deal with on January 1st.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

They're such different situations.
I'd ask you to look at the Richy one not from whether he should or shouldn't be in the squad, but from the 'why was he part of RDZ's plans/loved by the manager on pre-season tour' IF we had no real intention of keeping him or even using him much? Why did we not identify all angles of the situation in the summer during the close season? And why -having been seemingly suddenly told we want him to leave because we want to sell him- should he just accept what we're telling him we want him to do? This could all have been done efficiently at the start of the summer. Tel was quite obviously always in the manager's plans and continues to be (it appears). If he increasingly is not, I would expect the club to have the situation in hand and ready to deal with on January 1st.

Is this not explained by Richy seemingly changing his mind on three seperate occasions as to whether he wants to stay or not?

Would the club not likely be more annoyed at his changing of his mind constantly if it influenced the decision to sell Lankshear and meant that they also didn’t pursue targets earlier in the market that they might have, because they thought they had his commitment before he changed his mind again?

That would surely explain why he was brought on tour and then the relationship soured.

 

[thfcsteff]

Is this not explained by Richy seemingly changing his mind on three seperate occasions as to whether he wants to stay or not?

This is easily dealt with in the summer. Sign a new deal or we will not register you in the PL squad and look to sell you instead; let's work together to find the right deal for all. Easy. Before going on pre-season tour. Square it away.

Would the club not likely be more annoyed at his changing of his mind constantly if it influenced the decision to sell Lankshear and meant that they also didn’t pursue targets earlier in the market that they might have, because they thought they had his commitment before he changed his mind again?

The club is in charge. If they genuinely allowed what you're suggesting to be the case, then they're fools IMO.

That would surely explain why he was brought on tour and then the relationship soured.

Not a good enough reason for me mate. It was wholly controllable, especially given the contract situation.
It feels to me like we will not agree on this one. All good.

 

[metalgear]

This is easily dealt with in the summer. Sign a new deal or we will not register you in the PL squad and look to sell you instead; let's work together to find the right deal for all. Easy. Before going on pre-season tour. Square it away.



The club is in charge. If they genuinely allowed what you're suggesting to be the case, then they're fools IMO.




Not a good enough reason for me mate. It was wholly controllable, especially given the contract situation.
It feels to me like we will not agree on this one. All good.

from what i see, spurs agreed to let richy go but could not find a suitable one because richy was insisting on his own terms.
his request to break the contract is ridiculous and a precedent not favouring the club.

as long as the current contract is being honoured by both sides so there is no problem. too bad for richy, he should have accepted the everton deal and manage the new contract to his benefit.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

This is easily dealt with in the summer. Sign a new deal or we will not register you in the PL squad and look to sell you instead; let's work together to find the right deal for all. Easy. Before going on pre-season tour. Square it away.



The club is in charge. If they genuinely allowed what you're suggesting to be the case, then they're fools IMO.




Not a good enough reason for me mate. It was wholly controllable, especially given the contract situation.
It feels to me like we will not agree on this one. All good.

I guess it just depends what exactly was communicated and when. I’m not really understanding why the club would be so annoyed otherwise. But if we take De Zerbi’s words at face value, he was in; then out, then in again. I can see why that would annoy the club. I can then see why taking to social media around the Everton move burned any bridge.

As for why he came on the tour…maybe at that point Richy was in? It certainly seemed like we wanted him to sign a new contract but if he said he was in, we had a year option to extend, and we had no other striker for the tour, why would we not bring him then? If he changed his mind afterwards, that explains it.

I just think the club has for the most part been rational this summer. And I think Richy hasn’t, and we know he is emotional. So I struggle with this idea that there was an accommodation we could have made. He is the one acting childish and petulant on social media. He is the one that has refused three different moves. Of course it would have been better if it was worked out at the start of the summer but if he kept changing his mind, that would be the exact sort of behaviour that would make the club lose patience and trust in him would it not?

What am I missing here?

 

[thfcsteff]

I guess it just depends what exactly was communicated and when. I’m not really understanding why the club would be so annoyed otherwise. But if we take De Zerbi’s words at face value, he was in; then out, then in again. I can see why that would annoy the club. I can then see why taking to social media around the Everton move burned any bridge.

As for why he came on the tour…maybe at that point Richy was in? It certainly seemed like we wanted him to sign a new contract but if he said he was in, we had a year option to extend, and we had no other striker for the tour, why would we not bring him then? If he changed his mind afterwards, that explains it.

I just think the club has for the most part been rational this summer. And I think Richy hasn’t, and we know he is emotional. So I struggle with this idea that there was an accommodation we could have made. He is the one acting childish and petulant on social media. He is the one that has refused three different moves. Of course it would have been better if it was worked out at the start of the summer but if he kept changing his mind, that would be the exact sort of behaviour that would make the club lose patience and trust in him would it not?

What am I missing here?

What are you missing here mate?

The only thing I can see you're missing is that we disagree with each other as to who we each feel is mostly accountable in our provided scenarios. No amount of further exchanges will apparently change that.

It takes two to tango, but I remain firmly of the view that we should never have taken this belle to the ball in the first place if we knew we'd look for a better dancer, or if said-dancer didn't show themselves as reliable to our satisfaction.