Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

[SteveAWOL]

Is this is biggest pay day though?

Hopefully that £120m cash injection from the Lewis siblings last week isn’t going to be eaten up by RDZ’s pay-off because they were so desperate last season that they negotiated his contract with the astuteness of Charlie Kane!

 

[Welshspur60]

I am in a minority here who still thinks Solanke can be decent. Then again watching him today, he was flat footed and seemingly unfit when running back. Definitely one who needs to up his fitness and game.

No mate hes absolute gash. Never looks like hes got goalsv n him, and his career bar one fluke season shows that.
Never wanted him and hes done sod all to change my mind. A 65 million joke of a player.

 

[revlis]

Just dipping in briefly to say fudge off De Zerbi. Never wanted him, great times when we stayed up, but ultimately nothing has changed. Our players still look like they have no desire. Most of our play is pointless passing and no movement.

We've wasted over 300 million on "Premier League proven" without improving the team. The culture of not achieving is strong within this club.

We've gotten rid of some very promising players that could have been given a chance to develop (we're not winning anything this season, we'll struggle to be top half) instead of wasting money of Tonali and Marmoush. (Thank you Lewis family, hope you're enjoying it).

We've hired a manager with no track record beyond making "under dogs" play decent football. De Zerbi's style doesn't work when the opposition won't give you spaces to attack.

Relegation and owners fudging off would have been better.

See you in a year or two.

Oh no. You mean we won’t get to enjoy posts like this anymore?

,Back at my hotel room. Hate Ange, hate this team. Thought we might just fluke our way to a trophy, but no chance of that. Get the fudge out of my club you clam.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I am in a minority here who still thinks Solanke can be decent. Then again watching him today, he was flat footed and seemingly unfit when running back. Definitely one who needs to up his fitness and game.

Agreed. He’s been bad and I think like Tel the two of them are sort of risking giving up their shot at Spurs. Which is a real shame. But they need to improve whether that is fitness or confidence. I think Solanke ‘has it’ but he looked a class below the rest of the team today.

Overall though, I think we just need to score, when we’re putting in the massive physical exertion to swarm teams. That opens everything else up. It doesn’t need prime R9 to convert the chances we are creating. It just needs cool heads to get something over the line, not smashing something over or straight at the keeper.

It’s actually a very similar thing to Frank. I think I could understand what he was trying to do tactically as there were times before it really fell apart where we would have great periods in games and not score, and then concede when we were actually trying to defend. Frank seemed to want a first 15 of high intensity, where we’d look good, and then we’d manage to concede in the first half, then we had a lot of second halfs where we had the energy to huff and puff but couldn’t get a result because we gave ourselves too much to do, and had no possession game to speak of to actually worry the opposition anyway.

It feels like RDZ is going for a very high intensity first 30, to the point where if we don’t score then we are knackered. And even though we have a better possession game the players can’t raise themselves to get back into it. But I don’t think the tactics or the system or even the position the players are selected in is that wrong, I think it’s just execution. Games swing on goals, and we’re conceding at the worst possible time and failing to score when we create more than enough opportunities to do so.

If we can get in front like we intend, all of the press baiting and exploiting space in behind becomes way easier. We’re just failing to score. Players need to execute. And I’m not sure what the answer is other than them just chilling out when they’re in the box.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Agreed. He’s been bad and I think like Tel the two of them are sort of risking giving up their shot at Spurs. Which is a real shame. But they need to improve whether that is fitness or confidence. I think Solanke ‘has it’ but he looked a class below the rest of the team today.

Overall though, I think we just need to score, when we’re putting in the massive physical exertion to swarm teams. That opens everything else up. It doesn’t need prime R9 to convert the chances we are creating. It just needs cool heads to get something over the line, not smashing something over or straight at the keeper.

It’s actually a very similar thing to Frank. I think I could understand what he was trying to do tactically as there were times before it really fell apart where we would have great periods in games and not score, and then concede when we were actually trying to defend. Frank seemed to want a first 15 of high intensity, where we’d look good, and then we’d manage to concede in the first half, then we had a lot of second halfs where we had the energy to huff and puff but couldn’t get a result because we gave ourselves too much to do, and had no possession game to speak of to actually worry the opposition anyway.

It feels like RDZ is going for a very high intensity first 30, to the point where if we don’t score then we are knackered. And even though we have a better possession game the players can’t raise themselves to get back into it. But I don’t think the tactics or the system or even the position the players are selected in is that wrong, I think it’s just execution. Games swing on goals, and we’re conceding at the worst possible time and failing to score when we create more than enough opportunities to do so.

If we can get in front like we intend, all of the press baiting and exploiting space in behind becomes way easier. We’re just failing to score. Players need to execute. And I’m not sure what the answer is other than them just chilling out when they’re in the box.

This is how I’ve been speaking about it. It’s execution.

No other manager would get any more of a tune out of the players than RDZ got for the first 30 yesterday and against Everton. So then it’s over to the players.

Shots need to be on the corners, not straight at the keeper - think Savio. Decisions need to be better - Look at Archie Gray yesterday in the first half. He probably feels unlucky not to score there - but its poor execution. City or Arsenal just pull that back for someone to tap in.

Instinct - Kane had it in abundance, Lankshear has it. Richy has it a bit. Our players do not. It’s written all over their data. It’s no fluke when you see certain players always stood in the right place (the POMO - position of maximum opportunity - as Allardyce calls it). Watch when we cross from one side, the other wide forward is so often in a position where it would be almost impossible to score from. Brennan Johnson was good at that. Literally 5 or 6 free goals a season.

And as you say, timing is everything. Get one of these moments right in the early stages against Everton or Villa and it’s probably a comfortable win. That will have RDZ rearing his hair out.

I’m not sure these players have it in them. Ultimately we’ve frozen out our top scoring striker from last season and not replaced his goals. It’s a novel way of doing things.

 

[Bishop]

Yes, bought Palhinha, not bought Tonali (Bentancur can do his job).
Kept Spence, not got Robertson
Kept Vuskovich over Sensei & Tosin
Sold Richi and Solanke, spent the 100M saved from Tonali plus whatever we get on a top tier striker, kept Lankshear
Bought a #10

Lots of decisions that in hindsight start to look really bad if this doesn't turn around quickly.

And it's not just RDZ neck on the line now, surely the Vinai/Lange review is up again?

I get that you're saying you're not particularly happy with the summer business but why would you resign Palhinha if you want to improve the passing game and chances created? He doesn't add that and we know this from what he is as a player and what we saw with our eyes last season.

I personally I would have kept Spence but not for the left hand side. We needed an actual LB and whether that was getting in Robertson or just trusting in Souza I don't mind but Spence should have this season only been available for the right hand side.

I get why we didn't sign a 10 as we have 3 of them already. Buying a 4th would have been questionable but then they actually did try and buy a 10 hybrid in Ndiaye so TBF you kind of can't criticise the lack of the additional 10 when we did almost get him.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

No other manager would get any more of a tune out of the players than RDZ got for the first 30 yesterday and against Everton. So then it’s over to the players.

I am not for any moment suggesting we get rid of the guy, but I don't think that statement is exactly right. There are manager who have alot less resources at their mercy doing very well. Moyes is producing a miracle at Everton, the bloke at Saudi Sportswashing Machine also.

I think the difference being that RDZ has an idealistic way he wants to play where, esp in Moyes case, its about getting as many points on the board early, likely to see a drop off later down the line.

The issue with RDZ and the return in goals and points is his dedication to his idea, which is fine, hopefully it will come good, it bl00dy needs to

 

[Mrs Vert]

Agreed. He’s been bad and I think like Tel the two of them are sort of risking giving up their shot at Spurs. Which is a real shame. But they need to improve whether that is fitness or confidence. I think Solanke ‘has it’ but he looked a class below the rest of the team today.

Overall though, I think we just need to score, when we’re putting in the massive physical exertion to swarm teams. That opens everything else up. It doesn’t need prime R9 to convert the chances we are creating. It just needs cool heads to get something over the line, not smashing something over or straight at the keeper.

It’s actually a very similar thing to Frank. I think I could understand what he was trying to do tactically as there were times before it really fell apart where we would have great periods in games and not score, and then concede when we were actually trying to defend. Frank seemed to want a first 15 of high intensity, where we’d look good, and then we’d manage to concede in the first half, then we had a lot of second halfs where we had the energy to huff and puff but couldn’t get a result because we gave ourselves too much to do, and had no possession game to speak of to actually worry the opposition anyway.

It feels like RDZ is going for a very high intensity first 30, to the point where if we don’t score then we are knackered. And even though we have a better possession game the players can’t raise themselves to get back into it. But I don’t think the tactics or the system or even the position the players are selected in is that wrong, I think it’s just execution. Games swing on goals, and we’re conceding at the worst possible time and failing to score when we create more than enough opportunities to do so.

If we can get in front like we intend, all of the press baiting and exploiting space in behind becomes way easier. We’re just failing to score. Players need to execute. And I’m not sure what the answer is other than them just chilling out when they’re in the box.

If this is his only game plan then its worrying. As we are not always gonna get in front. I mean at the moment we hardly ever have.
Also seems like whatever game plan we go with, they cant implement

 

[Muttley]

Brentford was genuinely a poor defensive performance. Liverpool was all worldie goals that are low percentage to score.

The previous 2 games we defended very well. But I’ve seen it many a time even in teams I have played for if you don’t have confidence that the team can score a goal, once you go a goal behind mentally you switch off. Thats human nature.

There is a difference between the manager creating a good defensive setup that works and individual players defending well though. I assume you saw JPvH's defending for the first and second goals. He literally stands there ball watching for the first goal. He made it the easiest tap in in the world. He has also let the ball bounce multiple times this season from the long ball. He did it once again yesterday, got rolled and we find ourselves 2-0 down. The worrying thing is that the coaches may not be able to do anything with the first goal. They can perhaps teach him to be more on his toes but they can't change his football brain if he hasn't got the smarts to know what he should have done. That's no goal if Ledley or Toby are in that position. It's probably not a goal if Cuti is there, but he didn't always get these right. The coaches can work with him on the second goal though. Same with VDV. If one attacks the ball in the air, the other pivots behind. That's how centre half partnerships work. I do get the concern someone else made that VDV needs to step up and strart being responsible for building his partnerships in football. He has so far been the individual rather than the team player.

This is all food for thought for RDZ and his analysts. Unlike Ange, I think RDZ genuinely knows how to setup a defence. Unlike Frank, he also knows how to loosen the defensive shackles and go more attacking. He knows how to take more risks. He's a way better coach then both of them.

 

[Modrical]

Not followed/read the whole thread, but I do believe we all just need to be patient and hold our nerve with RdZ and the players. Of course there are questionable decisions/selections made, and i'm not a fan of calling out player mistakes etc, but the performances haven't been completely turgid like under Thomas Fraud.

I actually think the rotten run in New WHL is a bigger obstacle to overcome - we expect and accept losing at home, and the away team fancies their chances of getting a result, along with the endless stats about not winning when conceding first, but that is probably for another thread

 

[Muttley]

Not followed/read the whole thread, but I do believe we all just need to be patient and hold our nerve with RdZ and the players. Of course there are questionable decisions/selections made, and i'm not a fan of calling out player mistakes etc, but the performances haven't been completely turgid like under Thomas Fraud.

I actually think the rotten run in New WHL is a bigger obstacle to overcome - we expect and accept losing at home, and the away team fancies their chances of getting a result, along with the endless stats about not winning when conceding first, but that is probably for another thread

I agree on RDZ. I just watched his presser and really enjoyed his honesty on the game. He spoke about the importance of going down to 10 men. He put Bents back at centre half and Fernandez into centre mid. He didn't name names but he clearly wasn't happy with Bents role in that goal. It's clear to see Bents didn't take up a centre half position and stay with his man. It's clear that JPvH was marking fresh air and just ball watched as the ball was tapped in. RDZ also talked about his number 10 selection process, he talked about his subs and he also talked about Tel's omission. Some great insights on Solanke as well. He's really backing him and helping him to get to full fitness with confidence.

What I liked most is how he refused to talk about our positive first half. To him that was just table stakes and what he expects of his players every week. He wanted to focus on the other stuff and address them head on. That is so refreshing after the slopey shoulders of Ange who never answered any direct tough question about tactics and football. He just deflected.

Obviously, you can't win if you're these managers. Because of RDZ's honesty the gutter press will find ways of knocking him. They will sensationalise his comments above and make out he's hanging his players out to dry.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There is a difference between the manager creating a good defensive setup that works and individual players defending well though. I assume you saw JPvH's defending for the first and second goals. He literally stands there ball watching for the first goal. He made it the easiest tap in in the world. He has also let the ball bounce multiple times this season from the long ball. He did it once again yesterday, got rolled and we find ourselves 2-0 down. The worrying thing is that the coaches may not be able to do anything with the first goal. They can perhaps teach him to be more on his toes but they can't change his football brain if he hasn't got the smarts to know what he should have done. That's no goal if Ledley or Toby are in that position. It's probably not a goal if Cuti is there, but he didn't always get these right. The coaches can work with him on the second goal though. Same with VDV. If one attacks the ball in the air, the other pivots behind. That's how centre half partnerships work. I do get the concern someone else made that VDV needs to step up and strart being responsible for building his partnerships in football. He has so far been the individual rather than the team player.

This is all food for thought for RDZ and his analysts. Unlike Ange, I think RDZ genuinely knows how to setup a defence. Unlike Frank, he also knows how to loosen the defensive shackles and go more attacking. He knows how to take more risks. He's a way better coach then both of them.

The first goal is now goal if VDV is there
It’s why they scored
I don’t blame the right CB for not covering where he thought the left centre back would be
And I’m no JPVH fan

 

[Muttley]

The first goal is now goal if VDV is there
It’s why they scored
I don’t blame the right CB for not covering where he thought the left centre back would be
And I’m no JPVH fan

I have acknowledged on other threads that the acting centre half, Bents, got it all wrong. Put Ledley or Toby in JPvH's position and they anticipate what is happening. Even Romero at times. It's quite sad that we now have a new centre half that doesn't have the positional sense and reading of the game. He looks flat footed in key situations. He didn't even move and inch to where the problem was. You have to admit, that is a concern?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I have acknowledged on other threads that the acting centre half, Bents, got it all wrong. Put Ledley or Toby in JPvH's position and they anticipate what is happening. Even Romero at times. It's quite sad that we now have a new centre half that doesn't have the positional sense and reading of the game. He looks flat footed in key situations. He didn't even move and inch to where the problem was. You have to admit, that is a concern?

I agree he is an issue
I don’t think that goals on him
RDZ blamed a midfielder as one of them was meant to drop in (I think he named Fernandes)

 

[Muttley]

I agree he is an issue
I don’t think that goals on him
RDZ blamed a midfielder as one of them was meant to drop in (I think he named Fernandes)

He named both Bents and Fernandez. Bents was supposed to cover in at centre half and Fernandez was supposed to leave the 10 position and assume Bents role. RDZ talked about a scenario where if we were down to 10 men they should have been able to do that for 40, 50, 60 mins etc. We didn't last 2 mins without conceding. That was his point.

This stuff encourages me the way RDZ thinks and talks. He'll be having words more with Bents on that goal would be my guess. I don't really see why Fernandez would be called out. Both him and Tonali tracked back into the 18 yard box and were acting as a pair.

 

[MadSpurs]

Didn't even speak to the players in the dressing room after the game yesterday. Spoke to the journos first.

Bloke is losing it, I thought way back in May he'd be gone by Xmas.. I grow increasingly certain of it.

 

[Baleforce]

Didn't even speak to the players in the dressing room after the game yesterday. Spoke to the journos first.

Bloke is losing it, I thought way back in May he'd be gone by Xmas.. I grow increasingly certain of it.

I don’t see anything I feel positive about in the performances so far.

We just look so easy to score against.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

If this is his only game plan then its worrying. As we are not always gonna get in front. I mean at the moment we hardly ever have.
Also seems like whatever game plan we go with, they cant implement

Every team regardless of manager is going to have set periods where they expect to push for a goal, depending on the scoreline, depending on the analysis of when the opposition usually concedes and what they try to do. So I’m personally not concerned about the game plan. I think it’s sound, and I think we create more than enough chances that the players selected should score.

But I do agree that whatever game plan is not being implemented well right now. I think it needs to be a combination of the right strategy, the right players, squad guy in, and time. I think with Frank we had a fair enough strategy, we had ok players to execute it, but we didn’t have the squad buy in, even though we gave him more time than we probably should have. With RDZ, I think we have the players, the strategy, the buy in, but we’re so early on that we need to give it a chance to work out.

We just need to execute in the critical moments. It’s ridiculous to create the chances we have, to have the touches in the opposition box we have, and be struggling to score this badly.

 

[Yiddo]

Pointless fudging exercise looking at getting rid, you can’t pump £400m into a project and then have doubts about the guy who is spearheading the project after 2 months.

 

[Muttley]

Didn't even speak to the players in the dressing room after the game yesterday. Spoke to the journos first.

Bloke is losing it, I thought way back in May he'd be gone by Xmas.. I grow increasingly certain of it.

Let's face it, if he'd spoken to the players people would just slate him for it. If he doesn't speak to the players then guess what? He'd get slated for it. Ultimately, if you're one of the people that have it in for him you are going to twist it in the direction that suits your narrative.

Last week he spoke to one of his players straight after the 90 mins. He got lambasted for that.

I reckon they'll have a great chat about the game as a group at the first opportunity. They will talk about dominating Villa and I hope they talk about the Wan-Bissaka / Marmoush incident and remind the player that PGMOL have cheated us out of 3 points again. However, they will focus on what happened to the mindset of team when they went 2-0 down. There will be a couple of private conversations with individual players about switching off and making mistakes.

Yesterday turned out a bad day at the office in the end. It shouldn't have been that way really.