Savio

[Gutter Boy]

They aren't great but even in that short package he is getting the ball into the box between the 6 yd and penalty spot but there is no one in that traditional area challenging for it.

Always used to be the key zone for pull back or crossing. Perhaps tactics have changed?

That was my instinct when those balls were being cut back - the balls were good, it was the runs and movement that was missing

 

[glasgowspur]

They aren't great but even in that short package he is getting the ball into the box between the 6 yd and penalty spot but there is no one in that traditional area challenging for it.

Always used to be the key zone for pull back or crossing. Perhaps tactics have changed?

There's nothing wrong with the balls in, they don't need to be fantastic in that area, but we've no one there to take advantage.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

They aren't great but even in that short package he is getting the ball into the box between the 6 yd and penalty spot but there is no one in that traditional area challenging for it.

Always used to be the key zone for pull back or crossing. Perhaps tactics have changed?

Not sure I agree TBH, I think 1 maybe 2 were like that, the others were blocked or in areas that fell straight to a defender.

If he improves his distribution there is a player there.

 

[thfcsteff]

That was my instinct when those balls were being cut back - the balls were good, it was the runs and movement that was missing

Largely yes.
I do think there were a few moments where having beaten his man/men, I'd have liked to see him work the keeper/go for a shot from an angle.

Ironically, the cut-backs were in the sorts of areas Gallagher finds himself.
I just cannot fathom what is going on with Solanke. He was never a favorite of mine, but he has shrunk as a presence on the pitch, and he seems to be allergic to getting into scruffy positions. When he tried that bicycle kick, I found myself wishing he'd just try to win the ball/get to it front on instead.

 

[thfcsteff]

If we are going to expect him to suddenly just start shooting it into the top corner he will end up disappointing. That's just not his play style. He wants to run, beat his man, then either cross it in or play into a team mate for a give and go. Doing that on the right is limiting because he's on his weaker sides and his passing has fewer angles and naturally being on the wrong side the strongest option is to shoot, something he is specifically weak at.

Play him on the left and suddenly he can beat his man on the inside or outside and will play into the supporting attackers for give and goes and as he shooting is actually better going from left to right than it is the opposite.

I know RDZ says he likes his wingers cutting in and shooting but that's just not Savio's game. He's winger, not a striker on the wing. He is going to inevitably disappoint if we keep playing him this way.

Interesting.

At 22 years old, can he not be coached/encouraged/learn to shoot more? Or are you saying his style is too baked in for alternative skills to be taught in your opinion?

 

[robp135]

Interesting.

At 22 years old, can he not be coached/encouraged/learn to shoot more? Or are you saying his style is too baked in for alternative skills to be taught in your opinion?

I feel like wingers are typically the players that are able to compete at 1st team level sooner than other positions and therefore their development curve flattening will start a bit sooner.

Spurs examples;

Bale was in and around the 1st team squad at 18 but did not become one of our strongest players until he was 21. Did not become an elite player until 23 and kept going until he injuries got the better of him.

Lennon was a first team regular at 18 but never really pushed on that significantly at least in my opinion. He got 14 G/A in the 06/07 season as a 20 year old and never got above 12 again.

 

[Bishop]

Interesting.

At 22 years old, can he not be coached/encouraged/learn to shoot more? Or are you saying his style is too baked in for alternative skills to be taught in your opinion?

Yeah, I tend to believe in natural attributes and style. Like @robp135 mentioned, players tend to be who they are from quite a young age. They refine those abilities rather than genuinely adding brand-new ones. If you go back and watch Bale at 17 for Southampton, you see the exact same player he later became, just stronger, more mature, and freed from defensive duties.

It's not that I think Savinho can't ever improve his shooting, it's just that it isn't his natural inclination. On Saturday, when he had the beating of Mykolenko, his next instinct was never to drive toward goal and shoot; he was always looking for the layoff, the cross, or the pass into someone. He just doesn't have that goal hunger. Someone like Johnson was the opposite, you couldn't train him to do much in general play, but he had the natural instinct to get on the end of chances and score. That's why he consistently found himself in those positions.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on what ultimate system suits Savinho best, but basing it on what I've seen, a player who prefers creating for others and linking up with fellow attackers is naturally suited to playing on their stronger side. When you play on the inverted flank, your instincts really need to lean toward being a direct goal threat. Having watched Savinho at his best, that was clearly on the left where the pitch opens up for him. Even at Emirates Marketing Project, half of his goals came from the left despite playing there only 20% of the time. I get the manager's logic, if you could unlock a reliable goal threat to go with his dribbling, he'd be world class, but I just think he's far more of a traditional creating winger than an inside forward.

 

[Bullet]

Not disagreeing, just thinking aloud.
RDZ has 2 types of wide forwards e.g. Marmoush nominally on the left was coming inside the pitch to play as a second striker, allowing Robertson space down the flank. This gives their right full back a big problem of who to track.
Whereas Savio on the right was much closer to the line and beating the full back himself.
So it is not only a question of "left or right" for Savio it is also "wide or narrowed off".

I think we have a lot of "narrow wide forwards" in the squad, if they ever get fit.
Overall I'm pleased with the quality and depth of our wide forwards, we just need some to start firing and/or causing chaos.
Smashing a shot at goal will lead to chaos and rebounds and tap-ins IF it is low and on target and IF we have enough men in the box anticipating and sniffing out the chance, we DEFINITELY don't need Savio's shots to all arrow directly into the goal, they just need to cause chaos.

 

[Bishop]

Not disagreeing, just thinking aloud.
RDZ has 2 types of wide forwards e.g. Marmoush nominally on the left was coming inside the pitch to play as a second striker, allowing Robertson space down the flank. This gives their right full back a big problem of who to track.
Whereas Savio on the right was much closer to the line and beating the full back himself.
So it is not only a question of "left or right" for Savio it is also "wide or narrowed off".

I think we have a lot of "narrow wide forwards" in the squad, if they ever get fit.
Overall I'm pleased with the quality and depth of our wide forwards, we just need some to start firing and/or causing chaos.
Smashing a shot at goal will lead to chaos and rebounds and tap-ins IF it is low and on target and IF we have enough men in the box anticipating and sniffing out the chance, we DEFINITELY don't need Savio's shots to all arrow directly into the goal, they just need to cause chaos.

I definitely think Savio is a wide winger, but also one that suits playing on the left far more than he does on the right. Playing on the right naturally funnels him inside a lot of the time on his stronger foot, or crossing with his weaker right. It makes more sense for his to have the wider range of passing options on his stronger foot as well as his shooting is actually better going left to right diagonally rather than cutting back in towards the near post.

 

[robp135]

Yeah, I tend to believe in natural attributes and style. Like @robp135 mentioned, players tend to be who they are from quite a young age. They refine those abilities rather than genuinely adding brand-new ones. If you go back and watch Bale at 17 for Southampton, you see the exact same player he later became, just stronger, more mature, and freed from defensive duties.

It's not that I think Savinho can't ever improve his shooting, it's just that it isn't his natural inclination. On Saturday, when he had the beating of Mykolenko, his next instinct was never to drive toward goal and shoot; he was always looking for the layoff, the cross, or the pass into someone. He just doesn't have that goal hunger. Someone like Johnson was the opposite, you couldn't train him to do much in general play, but he had the natural instinct to get on the end of chances and score. That's why he consistently found himself in those positions.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on what ultimate system suits Savinho best, but basing it on what I've seen, a player who prefers creating for others and linking up with fellow attackers is naturally suited to playing on their stronger side. When you play on the inverted flank, your instincts really need to lean toward being a direct goal threat. Having watched Savinho at his best, that was clearly on the left where the pitch opens up for him. Even at Emirates Marketing Project, half of his goals came from the left despite playing there only 20% of the time. I get the manager's logic, if you could unlock a reliable goal threat to go with his dribbling, he'd be world class, but I just think he's far more of a traditional creating winger than an inside forward.

I think the players will get used to the type of movements and crosses he will make before he gets better at them.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah, I tend to believe in natural attributes and style. Like @robp135 mentioned, players tend to be who they are from quite a young age. They refine those abilities rather than genuinely adding brand-new ones. If you go back and watch Bale at 17 for Southampton, you see the exact same player he later became, just stronger, more mature, and freed from defensive duties.

It's not that I think Savinho can't ever improve his shooting, it's just that it isn't his natural inclination. On Saturday, when he had the beating of Mykolenko, his next instinct was never to drive toward goal and shoot; he was always looking for the layoff, the cross, or the pass into someone. He just doesn't have that goal hunger. Someone like Johnson was the opposite, you couldn't train him to do much in general play, but he had the natural instinct to get on the end of chances and score. That's why he consistently found himself in those positions.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on what ultimate system suits Savinho best, but basing it on what I've seen, a player who prefers creating for others and linking up with fellow attackers is naturally suited to playing on their stronger side. When you play on the inverted flank, your instincts really need to lean toward being a direct goal threat. Having watched Savinho at his best, that was clearly on the left where the pitch opens up for him. Even at Emirates Marketing Project, half of his goals came from the left despite playing there only 20% of the time. I get the manager's logic, if you could unlock a reliable goal threat to go with his dribbling, he'd be world class, but I just think he's far more of a traditional creating winger than an inside forward.

I think he was playing to instruction. I appreciate it is not his go-to, but I think if RDZ tells him to shoot more (and more importantly, look up and see what is out there) he can get that dimension in his locker.

 

[Bishop]

I think he was playing to instruction. I appreciate it is not his go-to, but I think if RDZ tells him to shoot more (and more importantly, look up and see what is out there) he can get that dimension in his locker.

But then the thought that crosses my mind is that you don't pay £75m to try and unlock a dimension he's never shown an aptitude for. Especially when what made his name and caught everyone's attention in the first place was playing on the opposite side and as a winger/playmaker.

I guess I just don't believe you are going draw out those same qualities with him on the right. I think here are better options for that role and for a lower fee to go with it.

 

[thfcsteff]

But then the thought that crosses my mind is that you don't pay £75m to try and unlock a dimension he's never shown an aptitude for. Especially when what made his name and caught everyone's attention in the first place was playing on the opposite side and as a winger/playmaker.

I guess I just don't believe you are going draw out those same qualities with him on the right. I think here are better options for that role and for a lower fee to go with it.

Let me spell it out.
De Zerbi will expect more goal contributions from ALL of them besides their 'speciality'.
Whether the player is up to it becomes another factor.
I think once Kudus is 100% he will look for Savio on the other side.

 

[Bishop]

Let me spell it out.
De Zerbi will expect more goal contributions from ALL of them besides their 'speciality'.
Whether the player is up to it becomes another factor.
I think once Kudus is 100% he will look for Savio on the other side.

You're not telling me anything I don't know. That's what I expect with Savio as well. He must have been bought for the left, that would make too much sense for it not to be the case.