ENIC

[metalgear]

We simply had to elevate from refusing to pay top wages and being unable to move decisively on our top targets. Now that we are doing that, there’s no reason we can’t win trophies consistently.

i wonder why we could not execute earlier though. maybe its got to do with levy's minority but still significant holdings.

 

[billyiddo]

i wonder why we could not execute earlier though. maybe its got to do with levy's minority but still significant holdings.

The have invested capital in the club over the past two seasons and also borrowed against future earnings - Levy doesn't have the personal wealth that Joe Lewis' kids have and from what we have seen over the 25 years previous would probably not look favourably against borrowing against future earnings.

 

[clownfoot]

I don’t mind saying I was cynical of the Nepos and VV after the car crash of last season. The attempt to control the narrative and have the press refer to them as the Lewis family rather than ENIC despite it still being the latter who control the club made me think it was an exercise in optics rather than any significant change in approach. The statement at the end of the season (from Charrington I think?) didn’t convince me, but their actions this summer have. Don’t get me wrong, these signings could all flop and just spending money can backfire as we saw with Liverpool last season, but there seems to have been a shift in approach of the club and how it is trying to operate.

It’s been a long time coming

 

[glasgowspur]

Spurs won't pay the fee. Busted it.
Spurs don't pay the wages. Ramped them up.
Now it is net spend.
If we end the window with savinho and marmoush* on top of who we've already brought in and still have a net zero or close to net spend that is not a bad thing.
It will be spun as one by the media, but it really isn't.
We will have a very good squad and money in the bank to react to any weaknesses that may show up between now and next season.

*still think gakpo will be here as well.

 

[metalgear]

The have invested capital in the club over the past two seasons and also borrowed against future earnings - Levy doesn't have the personal wealth that Joe Lewis' kids have and from what we have seen over the 25 years previous would probably not look favourably against borrowing against future earnings.

so its more about borrowing from future earnings.
levy could have just allowed the lewis family to invest more and accepted the dilution of his his share.

 

[billyiddo]

so its more about borrowing from future earnings.
levy could have just allowed the lewis family to invest more and accepted the dilution of his his share.

Given that he spoke about needing investment and was reportedly courting investment my guess is that it's only since the kids have stepped up their involvement in running things that investment via the Lewis's became an option. Makes no sense that Levy would have been blocking them from doing so

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

so its more about borrowing from future earnings.
levy could have just allowed the lewis family to invest more and accepted the dilution of his his share.

Of course, but equally they have taken two pay day loans for football, so I am not sure there was always so much interest in investing their own money.

Its not always the case of what is true today would have been true then either, I suppose we will never know

Ultimately to repeat myself from before, the Lewis family hold all the power and always did, their decision to invest now could have been taken in the past but they were seemingly happy with the value of their future inheritance to rise along with Levy doing the work to make that happen. You could make a strong argument that with themselves in the fan firing line and not Levy to deflect bullets, they took the decision to change tact knowing the 290m investment (in total with the loans) would be a drop in the ocean given the clubs worth 4bn and the club would be responsible for the repayment of 190m of that to those loan sharks in the US

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This is how almost every major business on the planet operates.

Amazon - $252B
Apple - $84B
Berkshire Hathaway - $129B
BP - $74B
Google - $98B
Meta - $84B
Microsoft - $57B
Nvidia - $12B
Samsung - $19B
Saudi Amraco - $101B
Shell - $76B
Tesla - $16B

Yet it's true to say (and most businessman who have been involved in football say) no other business/industry is like football.

 

[Bishop]

Of course, but equally they have taken two pay day loans for football, so I am not sure there was always so much interest in investing their own money.

Its not always the case of what is true today would have been true then either, I suppose we will never know

Ultimately to repeat myself from before, the Lewis family hold all the power and always did, their decision to invest now could have been taken in the past but they were seemingly happy with the value of their future inheritance to rise along with Levy doing the work to make that happen. You could make a strong argument that with themselves in the fan firing line and not Levy to deflect bullets, they took the decision to change tact knowing the 290m investment (in total with the loans) would be a drop in the ocean given the clubs worth 4bn and the club would be responsible for the repayment of 190m of that to those loan sharks in the US

I think it could be as simple as Joe Lewis having no real interest in either investing into the club nor with winning thing in the pitch. His concern seems more aligned to profitability and the value of his asset.

Now he's no longer running things, his children have more desire for success and have the power to make changes. They probably clashed with Levy about the direction wanted to go in and so got rid of him.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of course, but equally they have taken two pay day loans for football, so I am not sure there was always so much interest in investing their own money.

Its not always the case of what is true today would have been true then either, I suppose we will never know

Ultimately to repeat myself from before, the Lewis family hold all the power and always did, their decision to invest now could have been taken in the past but they were seemingly happy with the value of their future inheritance to rise along with Levy doing the work to make that happen. You could make a strong argument that with themselves in the fan firing line and not Levy to deflect bullets, they took the decision to change tact knowing the 290m investment (in total with the loans) would be a drop in the ocean given the clubs worth 4bn and the club would be responsible for the repayment of 190m of that to those loan sharks in the US

I don’t think it is an accident that Levy was removed (and removed kicking and screaming) before we could change tack. Levy was CEO and in charge of running all aspects of the club. I think they had to remove Levy as head honcho in order for us to finally start acting as a big club.

 

[robp135]

I don’t think it is an accident that Levy was removed (and removed kicking and screaming) before we could change tack. Levy was CEO and in charge of running all aspects of the club. I think they had to remove Levy as head honcho in order for us to finally start acting as a big club.

The funds were avalible to have this type of window last summer. Levy could not deliver.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don’t think it is an accident that Levy was removed (and removed kicking and screaming) before we could change tack. Levy was CEO and in charge of running all aspects of the club. I think they had to remove Levy as head honcho in order for us to finally start acting as a big club.

He was good enough for them for 20 odd years whilst he swelled their wealth. I think you are purposely kidding yourself if you believe that neither Joe or his kids had the influence and power to instruct Levy that he could spend more and use the clubs leverage to do so. He was working under the parameters the club was set up with, they didn't change them before, they didn't kick and scream at him when he was running a massively effective financial institution either. If you think hey had to remove him in order to spend more money when they had the power to sack him, then I think you are frankly talking absolutely twaddle and trying to square the circle of bias in your mindset

 

[robp135]

Spurs won't pay the fee. Busted it.
Spurs don't pay the wages. Ramped them up.
Now it is net spend.
If we end the window with savinho and marmoush* on top of who we've already brought in and still have a net zero or close to net spend that is not a bad thing.
It will be spun as one by the media, but it really isn't.
We will have a very good squad and money in the bank to react to any weaknesses that may show up between now and next season.

*still think gakpo will be here as well.

Spurs does crazy things to people.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think it could be as simple as Joe Lewis having no real interest in either investing into the club nor with winning thing in the pitch. His concern seems more aligned to profitability and the value of his asset.

Now he's no longer running things, his children have more desire for success and have the power to make changes. They probably clashed with Levy about the direction wanted to go in and so got rid of him.

I think this is more likely a big element of the changes we've seen. The rock solid partnership of Joe and Levy fractured by the kids. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's not only Levy that they didn't see eye to eye with...I think there may have been a shift with their dad's control over them as well.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

The list of clubs that borrow from

I think this is more likely a big element of the changes we've seen. The rock solid partnership of Joe and Levy fractured by the kids. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's only Levy that the didn't see eye to eye with...I think there may have been a shift with their dad's control over them as well.

There are loads and loads of possibilities to it. I don't agree with the idea that they wanted to spend more and Levy didn't which is being bandied about, people been watching too many militant Spurs YT channels

 

[Finney Is Back]

He was good enough for them for 20 odd years whilst he swelled their wealth. I think you are purposely kidding yourself if you believe that neither Joe or his kids had the influence and power to instruct Levy that he could spend more and use the clubs leverage to do so. He was working under the parameters the club was set up with, they didn't change them before, they didn't kick and scream at him when he was running a massively effective financial institution either. If you think hey had to remove him in order to spend more money when they had the power to sack him, then I think you are frankly talking absolutely twaddle and trying to square the circle of bias in your mindset

As well as owning 25% of Tottenham, I think Levy ran every single aspect of it. I believe that Levy was perfectly happy to run THFC with a sole aim of increasing his and Joe Lewis's net worth and I believe that Joe was perfectly happy to let Levy run it that way. They were a perfect match.

The Super League, attempted move to Stratford and chasing of a future NFL franchise are things that suggest to me that this was the aim from both of them before we even consider the fact that we only ever pushed the boat for players out from positions of weakness and never strength (protect the investment only!)

I think Joe Lewis counts his success via the size of his net worth, I think Daniel Levy and he are peas in a pod in that way. Lewis was perfectly happy to have a CEO who shared that vision for both of them and allowed him to run Spurs as he saw fit because Levy was making the pair of them richer.
Perhaps the next generation of the Lewis family value what constitutes personal success in a different way to their Dad (and Levy). Maybe they realise they have enough money for their own, their kids, their grandkids and their grandkids kids lifetimes, and hence their views differed to Levy's, eventually leading to them ousting Levy and appointing a new CEO in Vinai Venkatesham who shares the vision of glory on the football pitch and not just constant increasing of personal wealth. Why do you think they would've ousted (a kicking and screaming) Levy otherwise?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Maybe they realise they have enough money for their own, their kids, their grandkids and their grandkids kids lifetimes, and hence their views differed to Levy's, eventually leading to them ousting Levy and appointing a new CEO in Vinai Venkatesham who shares the vision of glory on the football pitch and not just constant increasing of personal wealth. Why do you think they would've ousted (a kicking and screaming) Levy otherwise

There are proven records in companies house and again shown on how much we spent year on year under Levy to show that when money increased spending did. He scaled spending every year based on what he had to spend. The idea that had the Lewis kids given him more money that he would not have done that or wanted to, given his track record is diabolical logic, it literally goes against whats written into fact.

Neither of us know why he was removed, I suspect it comes down to, like most businesses do, a fraction caused by there being alot of people sat at a table with alot of % of interest in the club and a coming together or personalities. Given what I have seen in sport and the world of business that looks the most logical given the path of how the kids gained access to the club, theirs and DL relationship with Joe and maybe other factors.

The "kicking and screaming" part isn't really what you think it is, I think we all would do the same if we put 25 years building an empire like Spurs turned into, you are lying to yourself if you think otherwise

 

[robp135]

As well as owning 25% of Tottenham, I think Levy ran every single aspect of it. I believe that Levy was perfectly happy to run THFC with a sole aim of increasing his and Joe Lewis's net worth and I believe that Joe was perfectly happy to let Levy run it that way. They were a perfect match.

The Super League, attempted move to Stratford and chasing of a future NFL franchise are things that suggest to me that this was the aim from both of them before we even consider the fact that we only ever pushed the boat for players out from positions of weakness and never strength (protect the investment only!)

I think Joe Lewis counts his success via the size of his net worth, I think Daniel Levy and he are peas in a pod in that way. Lewis was perfectly happy to have a CEO who shared that vision for both of them and allowed him to run Spurs as he saw fit because Levy was making the pair of them richer.
Perhaps the next generation of the Lewis family value what constitutes personal success in a different way to their Dad (and Levy). Maybe they realise they have enough money for their own, their kids, their grandkids and their grandkids kids lifetimes, and hence their views differed to Levy's, eventually leading to them ousting Levy and appointing a new CEO in Vinai Venkatesham who shares the vision of glory on the football pitch and not just constant increasing of personal wealth. Why do you think they would've ousted (a kicking and screaming) Levy otherwise?

I never quite understand the critique of Levy when it comes to the Super League. Had he turned down the spot and the competition had gone it would have been a disaster for the club. Not saying I would want the ESL but Levy had no choice but to be part of it. Wasn’t he given 48 hours notice about it as well?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I never quite understand the critique of Levy when it comes to the Super League. Had he turned down the spot and the competition had gone it would have been a disaster for the club. Not saying I would want the ESL but Levy had no choice but to be part of it. Wasn’t he given 48 hours notice about it as well?

Absolutely this, had it gone ahead and us out of it, those crucifying him for it the same way.

This is a fanbase that wanted us to lose hundreds of millions by not taking a Covid relief, which it was built for and place the club in further debt and berated Levy for it rather than the players who unionised and would not take a cut.

 

[Finney Is Back]

There are proven records in companies house and again shown on how much we spent year on year under Levy to show that when money increased spending did. He scaled spending every year based on what he had to spend. The idea that had the Lewis kids given him more money that he would not have done that or wanted to, given his track record is diabolical logic, it literally goes against whats written into fact.

Neither of us know what he was removed, I suspect it comes down to, like most businesses do, a fraction caused by there being alot of people sat at a table with alot of % of interest in the club and a coming together or personalities. Given what I have seen in sport and the world of business that looks the most logical given the path of how the kids gained access to the club, theirs and DL relationship with Joe and maybe other factors.

The "kicking and screaming" part isn't really what you think it is, I think we all would do the same if we put 25 years building an empire like Spurs turned into, you are lying to yourself if you think otherwise

Sorry but I just don't think that adds up.

Levy had sole control of how Spurs spent their money. He had loaded the board with 'yes men' (and women) so that he could be sole decision maker. Joe Lewis was happy with this because, as I said before, his net worth was growing nicely (along with Levy's).

When ownership transferred to Joe Lewis' children the ambition changed. Having an ambition of winning as many trophies as possible probably doesn't tie in very well with an ambition of growing net worth as much as possible. Levy effectively had complete control over how the club spent it's money. Therefore the new owners brought in new people to dilute Levy's power and then ousted him. They now have a CEO who is aligned to their (new) objectives.