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Luka Vuskovic

harr1984 said:
Not snobbish at all, the point is hardly anyone on here has watched many if any Hamburg games for 90 minutes - I have only seen 4 or 5 myself so do not feel qualified to make any real statements about how good he is. People are going off of in the main some YouTube clips and links in the media, actual live 90 minutes of the player hardly anyone has seen.

The club has seen practically every minute of what he's done since he signed so far better placed to know where he's at....
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You could literally say that about 90% of things that happen in football and with the club and then the forum would become a really really pointless place for conversation.

We went out of our way to scout a player who has hit every strap asked of him before now, I know people have a downer on @Gutter Boy at times because of his enthusiasm for the youth players, but given he was in the Bundesliga team of the year at 18 (I also trust those peoples judgement) then I think there is a correct level to his enthusiasm for Vusko here.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I don't think putting it out in those terms is very fair on the people discussing the lad or being excited about his talents, we know we are not managers and coaches in the PL, that tone comes over massively snobbish fella

But to the point, managers and clubs make mistakes, sometimes for all their lack of understanding of the game, their lack of training, their YT only viewing, sometimes the fans are right..........sometimes
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It’s not being snobbish, it’s being realistic. Most people talking about players in foreign leagues haven’t actually watched them regularly. They’re judging from YouTube compilations, social media clips and what they’ve heard from others. Vuskovic has a huge hype train behind him at the moment and plenty of people have jumped on board despite having very little real knowledge of the player or his actual situation. There’s nothing wrong with being excited about his potential, but pretending we know exactly what he’ll become based on a handful of clips is a different matter.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
You could literally say that about 90% of things that happen in football and with the club and then the forum would become a really really pointless place for conversation.

We went out of our way to scout a player who has hit every strap asked of him before now, I know people have a downer on @Gutter Boy at times because of his enthusiasm for the youth players, but given he was in the Bundesliga team of the year at 18 (I also trust those peoples judgement) then I think there is a correct level to his enthusiasm for Vusko here.
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Hes very talented and I haven't seen anything stating you're not allowed to be enthusiastic about him? But calling a player one of our best players who has never played in the PL let alone put our shirt on and you haven't seen hardly any live football of is ridiculous levels of overhyping.

I'm looking forward to seeing him play for us, let's hope it happens...
 
harr1984 said:
I haven't seen anything stating you're not allowed to be enthusiastic about him?
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And I never said anyone has either???

And BTW, our club has made a host of bad decisions in the last number of years, so respectfully, I know we are below them in the chain of knowledge but the whole "they know best" isn't an exact science either is it...........
 
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Yiddo said:
It’s not being snobbish, it’s being realistic. Most people talking about players in foreign leagues haven’t actually watched them regularly. They’re judging from YouTube compilations, social media clips and what they’ve heard from others. Vuskovic has a huge hype train behind him at the moment and plenty of people have jumped on board despite having very little real knowledge of the player or his actual situation. There’s nothing wrong with being excited about his potential, but pretending we know exactly what he’ll become based on a handful of clips is a different matter.
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The tone is 100% snobbish, but it is what it is

People are calling what they see, he was voted one of the best two CBs in the league last year at 18, that carries a certain level of fact about how good the player is, you don't have to have seen him to know that his journey thus far is MASSIVELY impressive. Thats not overhyping anyone, thats just appreciating his journey.

Ultimately, the facts will come out on him over time, others outside our club clearly like the lad too, if we don't want him there will be plenty of homes that will and they will be bigger then Brighton I am certain
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
You could literally say that about 90% of things that happen in football and with the club and then the forum would become a really really pointless place for conversation.
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Sshhhh! Don't give the game away.

MartyFunkhouser said:
We went out of our way to scout a player who has hit every strap asked of him before now, I know people have a downer on @Gutter Boy at times because of his enthusiasm for the youth players, but given he was in the Bundesliga team of the year at 18 (I also trust those peoples judgement) then I think there is a correct level to his enthusiasm for Vusko here.
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I don't know what surprised me more - learning that Gutter Boy was in the Bundesliga team of the year, or finding out he is 18 ;)
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
And I never said anyone has either???

And BTW, our club has made a host of bad decisions in the last number of years, so respectfully, I know we are below them in the chain of knowledge but the whole "they know best" isn't an exact science either is it...........
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Didn't say they know best, I said they have all the information and have analysed every minute of his playing time - we don't and havent. And it will be down to RDZ, who hasn't overseen a load of said bad decisions. He knows whether the guy is what he wants for his team right now or not I'm sure and yes that doesn't mean this forum can't discuss whether Vuskovic is good enough to be playing for us right now.

But I'm comfortable in saying he is currently not one of our best players when we haven't seen him set foot in the PL, the Bundesliga is for the most part bang average and I'd like to see how he does in our league for a bit before making such sweeping statements. That's not to say he won't be, but I'd like to see him play at least a few games in our shirt before coming out with stuff like that as crazy as that may sound....
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, some rate too highly, some too lowly, some just wanna shut down conversations with "well if the manager doesnt think so" like its not up for discussion.

Truth is, all players are individuals so there isnt a path thats correct because of a player that came before them, too many nuances and circumstance changes for it to be easy or there to be one definitive correct answer.

All I will say is that if Bergvall and Vusko don't have long term futures at Spurs, given their obvious talents, then I think we have a massive problem
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Well clearly we do have a massive problem, we've been declining for a number of years and reached a point where we could easily have been relegated. First priority must be to arrest that decline and stabilise our position in the PL. Can that be done at the same time as developing young players? It probably can but I doubt it involves putting total reliance on the younger players. I think the problem is whether some of our players see (and want) a long term future at Spurs and if they do whether the club can find a way to balance it's main priority with the short term aims of the individual players. I, like everybody else, doesn't really know how good Vuskovic is now or can be in the future or what are his short term and long term aims. However the suggestion that a 19 year old who has never played a competitive match for the club is saying, either you play me as first choice now or I want a transfer doesn't sit well with me.
 
BigChiv9 said:
However the suggestion that a 19 year old who has never played a competitive match for the club is saying, either you play me as first choice now or I want a transfer doesn't sit well with me.
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If of course he is saying that, and it wouldn't me either, but maybe he wants greater clarification on his future, who knows
 
Gutter Boy said:
I still don't get this logic

We'd loan one of our best players, to a better team than us, because we are ashamed of where we've fallen to?
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Brighton can afford to play him and have an "off" season, we can't.
If we'd finished in European places then we could find him games and even test him in the PL.
Our last two seasons have destroyed any chance we had of that. We need proven ability.
 
glasgowspur said:
Brighton can afford to play him and have an "off" season, we can't.
If we'd finished in European places then we could find him games and even test him in the PL.
Our last two seasons have destroyed any chance we had of that. We need proven ability.
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Absolutely, but there has to be a plan for youth integration otherwise it makes a mockery of the time and money we are investing in youth and scouting
 
P.D. said:
Why would we agree a sell on clause to Brighton, this must be made up. Never heard of that type of clause being given to a club that never owned the player.
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Brighton but, develop and sell on players...that's their model.

So although they could benefit from just having Vuskovic as a very good player for a season or two....it fly's in the face of that model. It also blocks a CH from a place on their production line.

So a sell on % for them allows this deal to fit in with their usual model (albeit slightly clunky)
 
harr1984 said:
It's not my logic, it's potentially our managers logic. Just because you and others say he's one of our best players doesn't make it true, I'm confident in saying RDZ and the club have seen more footage of Vuskovic than the whole of this board put together - and are more aware of his weaknesses than YouTube clips people on here are going off with his goals scored and some good defending in an inferior league.

There aren't many 19 year old CBs starting in the Premier League because it is a specialist position where experience is often crucial especially if your ambitions are to seriously compete. I don't care one way or another what is done with him for next season as long as he isn't sold. I trust RDZ to know whether he is ready for his style of football, or if an education at Brighton or wherever is best for the time being. If he is sold then I will be extremely disappointed, from the handful of games I've seen he is very talented....
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Brighton would be ideal for him as a straight loan. (There's no guarantee he'll start for them, but they do have Conference League) We then see where we finish next season, if we get Europe, then that's the ideal time to get him integrated into our team.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
There is also talk that the relationship is strained because of promises made in the past that have not been delivered on, now who knows if that is true but if it was and we fumbled the ball then we need to look at WTF we are doing as a club
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I would find this a bit odd from Vuskovic’s PoV. We signed him, we waited for him to arrive, we found him a good loan. At the same time, he did really well while we as a club did really badly.

How can promises possibly have been broken seriously at this point?

I think the way Vuskovic or his team are handling things to be a bit strange to be honest. They’ve clearly let it be known he’d be very happy to go to Brighton. But why is there not more of a ‘I’ll have a PL loan and then crush it at Spurs after that’ view?
 
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