Igor the Interim

[Robspur12]

It's what Arsenal do and they are top of the league for running stats. You advocated Ireola who does exactly the same at Bournemouth, they are the third highest in the league for distance covered. If I remember correctly our distances covered were always up there under Poch too.

With us not being in Europe next season it certainly shouldn't be such an issue, and outrunning opposition tends to win you more games. And even if we have periods of being lower on energy, I'd take that over what I've seen for most of this season....

So why has Igor got a reputation for being a short term manager? I think there is a lot more nuance to the other managers than just "running stats."

 

[harr1984]

So why has Igor got a reputation for being a short term manager? I think there is a lot more nuance to the other managers than just "running stats."

Yeah it's a fair question, I'm not pretending to be an expert on Tudor or saying he is the answer - I simply wouldn't rule him out because it's a difficult squad to manage especially with the players available to him and not easy to get a tune out of them so if he does then I'm at least open to the idea.

He has a reputation for being a short term manager because he has usually stayed in roles for a short time, but that doesn't mean he can't sustain something. He led Marseille to 3rd in the league with 1.83 PPG and he left the club, at Lazio he chose to end things there after a brief spell with 1.9 PPG record. At Juve he was sacked, but there is not a lot to suggest his playing style couldn't work - more off the pitch matters and his happyness I guess....

 

[Robspur12]

It's what Arsenal do and they are top of the league for running stats. You advocated Ireola who does exactly the same at Bournemouth, they are the third highest in the league for distance covered. If I remember correctly our distances covered were always up there under Poch too.

With us not being in Europe next season it certainly shouldn't be such an issue, and outrunning opposition tends to win you more games. And even if we have periods of being lower on energy, I'd take that over what I've seen for most of this season....

Interestingly I looked at teams who played with the most intensity in the league last season. Nottingham Forest played by far with the least and Liverpool were average. Yet both had excellent seasons. As I say the arguments are always more nuanced in reality.

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[harr1984]

Interestingly I looked at teams who played with the most intensity in the league last season. Nottingham Forest played by far with the least and Liverpool were average. Yet both had excellent seasons. As I say the arguments are always more nuanced in reality.

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course, I'm not suggesting different styles don't or can't work. But I wouldn't agree that you can't be successful based on playing with intensity, it can be sustainable if managed correctly.

But I would say I don't think a more passive style is ever going to be one that is taken to at this club based on past experiences....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Not wanting to rain on people's parade but there is a long way to go. This season has been littered with false dawns - champions league wins, victories away to City and Everton. None of them really built us any momentum in the league. So let's wait and evaluate once we are safe because we are a long way from that yet.

I was very vocal about wanting Igor removed before last Sunday because given the extraordinary circumstances we found ourselves in, I felt we needed a manager who could arrest the slide quickly. Let's face it, in those first 4 games, we were really bad and he didn't look like that guy. Players like Xavi, Tel and Spence have been inconsistent this season. World beaters one minute, chumps the next. In the hustle and bustle of a relegation fight they may revert to type. We need to be patient with this squad.

I will say though Archie Gray is looking really good in his midfield role something which I think some credit should be given to TF whether or not you like him ( just like Brennan Johnson thrived under Ange). Hopefully him and Conor Gallagher (who will come good) will be rotating that position for years to come. We need to find away of keeping them injury free though.

It's great that we have improved, I am starting to warm to Igor. But we have been here before and I'm still nervous as hell about Sunday.

Can only take it every game at a time, any more any less at this point is ridiculous

 

[Ace Face]

Been saying the same for a very long time. I don't think it is Lange's job in any way though. You can easily put public statements out there that don't need a name against them either. That's what Pool and Arsenal did.

First of all, Spurs need to hire a fully qualified referee and analyst that knows the laws of the game inside out. We need to measure this impact by measuring the PL referee's performance against the laws of the game. We need to make that data public, plus the impact it has on our outcome. We then need to have that person sitting pitch side in every game with the laptop. That person needs to be designated by Spurs to talk to the 4th official.

The optics and impact of this would change how we are referee'd. PGMOL would soon adapt if we published objective analysis of their refereeing and even provided kudos where we see it improving. We just need to keep it all non-emotional and start telling PGMOL what they need to do.

Yes, it absolutely needs to be evidence-based. Maybe it doesn’t have Langhe or VV’s name’s attached to it but they would be the ones who would have to sanction it in the first place.

But Utd made an official complaint over yesterday’s game…why have we not done so once this season?

Again, appears to show an utter lack of fight from the higher-ups and is letting the players and managers down when they need support. If Tudor gets a suspension without any type of appeal or complaint from us, especially in the face of the comments by Carrick and Bruno yesterday, then this another very bad look.

 

[SteveAWOL]

We are WAY closer to relegation this season than last. I put the grand total of zero on Spurs being relegated last season. Whereas I have lumped on massively this season (and managed to lay lots off as the odds have come tumbling down as everyone else realised how brick we are)

Thank feck that the 3 promoted teams last season were utter garbage and Southampton soldiered on with Russell Martin who kindly gifted us 6 points to keep us well clear of trouble

 

[Kandi1977]

fudging FA and their consistency!

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[Ace Face]

fudging FA and their consistency!

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Exactly.

Based on the evidence, any unbiased outsider could easily make the claim that the PL/PGMOL appear to have decided pre-season that Arsenal should win the title this year.

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=f...s+in+premiere+league+in+season+2025-2026&l=pl

Evidence that Arsenal receive over one more foul per yellow card than any other team in the league.

Our continued silence is deafening.

 

[jts1882]

Interestingly I looked at teams who played with the most intensity in the league last season. Nottingham Forest played by far with the least and Liverpool were average. Yet both had excellent seasons. As I say the arguments are always more nuanced in reality.

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

Premier League: Which teams ran and sprinted most in 2024-25?

www.bbc.co.uk

Liverpool were average for total running, but fourth highest for sprints.

What also can be hidden is different players doing different things. For instance, if Salah doesn't track back defensively his total running might bring the Liverpool total down, while he could have a high sprints number.

If a player is topping the list for distance and sprints, he's probably knackered and injury prone by mid-season.

 

[Mcfee]

Thank feck that the 3 promoted teams last season were utter garbage and Southampton soldiered on with Russell Martin who kindly gifted us 6 points to keep us well clear of trouble

View attachment 21902

We got another 6 points from Brentford. Must’ve been some clown managing them.

 

[SteveAWOL]

We got another 6 points from Brentford. Must’ve been some clown managing them.

Birds of a feather clown together

 

[Ace Face]

Liverpool were average for total running, but fourth highest for sprints.

What also can be hidden is different players doing different things. For instance, if Salah doesn't track back defensively his total running might bring the Liverpool total down, while he could have a high sprints number.

If a player is topping the list for distance and sprints, he's probably knackered and injury prone by mid-season.

I’ll wager that Pep’s Barcelona teams weren’t anywhere near the top in terms of distance covered.

It’s one metric to consider but in isolation will never give the whole picture.

 

[Gazza]

I’ll wager that Pep’s Barcelona teams weren’t anywhere near the top in terms of distance covered.

It’s one metric to consider but in isolation will never give the whole picture.

Yeah but they had direction and a game plan. When you have neither you need to put the yards in. Then if you have all three you will win more than you lose.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah i think people have got a bit ahead of themselves after midweek. Forest will pack the middle of the pitch, it won't be open like it was v AM - it's going to be a proper slog and not the type of fixture we've been doing well in at all.

I think the factor which gives me far greater encouragement is that our simple work-rate and desire to win those second balls as well as keep the lines compact/not give up spaces between the lines has greatly, greatly improved all of a sudden. I agree, this is going to be a battle, and Gray V Anderson feels like a key, key battle to be won. But I'm confident. If EVER there was a game where an early goal for us would see a surge of confidence perhaps light some touch paper for a convincing win, then it is tomm...truth is, a 95th min deflected off the arse cheek winner for us would be equally welcome. I'll take the three points any way possible!!!

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I have been frustrated all season about the club’s lack of fight with the PL and PGMOL (?) and not calling out so many poor decisions and rulings that have gone against us.

Someone from the upper echelons of the club should have months ago made a statement about how we are clearly being treated differently than the the other big clubs by the referees. We have facts we can present to back this up, such as we have received the highest rate of yellow cards per foul, or the absurd VAR calls that go against us (Bentancur vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine) compared with the same offense not being penalized by other clubs (yes, looking at you Arsenal). So many other examples we could use too. And now we are going to lamely accept whatever punishment they throw at Tudor.

Kudos to Hurzeler for calling out Arsenal’s bs after their match. If only we had a little of that. Instead we have been sooooo incredibly tame and accepting of the situation that clearly shows a lack of support from the execs for the playing squad.

One more negative against VV and Langhe for me. We should all be fighting together.

Pathetic.

Totally agree with you.

I spent a bunch of time on Claude AI the other night. I was trying to probe it around the arguments for the reasons VAR is the way it is. Really trying to prompt it not just to tell me what I want to hear, but to give me any argument at all that they can’t drive better consistency with the tools available to them.

I was actually pretty shocked that even in this, really promoting it to go to any corner of the internet and find me any argument to explain to me why things have to be the way they are right now, it couldn’t give me a good one. Essentially even on this it boiled down to institutional inertia. Referees feeling like they need to justify themselves and protect each other, a league content enough in the fact that it continues to make money in spite of this nonsense, and a governing body worried about creating too difficult an environment for future referee recruitment.

I’m not really sure what the answer is. Other leagues handle it slightly better. And other sports don’t have this terrified disposition at technology embarrassing an on field referee, technology is used to augment their ability to keep the game moving on the pitch, but helps get the important calls right. I think we as fans need to kick up enough of a stink to create a real movement here, and that’s the only way. Otherwise the ref gang just carries on doing an utterly terrible job.

 

[thfcsteff]

Think its revisionism to say that the Frank appointment "damn near relegated us".

We finished 17th the season before, on 38 points. We lost 22 games. The most any team has managed to lose and not be relegated.

Having played 30 games already this season we would need to lose all our remaining games to even equal last season's loss total.

We are in no worse position than last season. We have simply carried on. The difference is that this season the bottom 3 are far closer points wise to the rest of the league. We massively got away with one last year from a being in real danger situation. This year the relegation threatened teams aren't as bad.

So while the Frank appointment was a symptom of continued poor decision making and he didn't have what it took to improve us, it was Ange and an overall slide in standards that got us here in the first place. Frank is not the reason we are where we are. He was just a woefully inadequate solution to the already dug hole.

I think it's folly to deny Frank's fullsome contribution to where we are. I think it's selective confirmation bias to blame Ange/'standards slide' for where we are. Obviously there is plenty of contextual debate to be had (all of which has already been had in all honesty) so I just wanted to again record how thoroughly I disagree with your expressed views here. All good, we do (as we must) move on and COYS.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Counter attacking just without the actual counter attack! It was woeful.

Yeah, looking back it was completely bizarre. We literally had no plan in possession, whether that be settled possession or even the hint of an attempt at a counter attacking game.

if we got the ball back, we would set up slowly, get the ball wide, and sling in crosses. It was like our football was a living manifestation of Frank’s uncertainty. The over reliance on data. The refusal to take any risk despite gaslighting with the idea that not taking a risk is taking a risk.

Was really interesting to see the football against Atletico. The one and two touch. The actual intent. Maybe fitness was the thing that’s allowing us to do that. But I think actual intent and confidence in having some attacking rhythm at all is such a game changer from the first 7 months of the season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

A draw against Liverpool was positive. They are also a team are very sexy this season.

Beat Athletico was good. However, they went in to the game knowing they just had not loose by 3.

The last two games give us hope for the relegation battle, but nothing more.

Get to the summer remaining in the PL and then major surgery is needed.

Yes, I think we all know that, and part of that happening is for the fans to be onside and enthusiastic. It's important!

On Wed, as we headed into the 90th minute, the crowd sang a really, really loud 'Oh when the Spurs...' and I noticed an uptick, a final burst of energy which resulted in us winning the penalty to win the game. There was, for me, a direct correlation between the two things.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah, looking bad it was completely bizarre. We literally had no plan in possession, whether that be settled possession or even the hint of an attempt at a counter attacking game.

if we got the ball back, we would set up slowly, get the ball wide, and sling in crosses. It was like our football was a living manifestation of Frank’s uncertainty. The over reliance on data. The refusal to take any risk despite gaslighting with the idea that not taking a risk is taking a risk.

Was really interesting to see the football against Atletico. The one and two touch. The actual intent. Maybe fitness was the thing that’s allowing us to do that. But I think actual intent and confidence in having some attacking rhythm at all is such a game changer from the first 7 months of the season.

Nobody wants to admit it, and people get upset when Frank is criticised, but he showed a distinct anxiety in progressive, attacking football. He clearly decided early doors that the only way he felt he could keep us 'solid' was to only engage in low-risk wide play in terms of chance creation, he clearly did NOT want to take the risk of playing through the middle as he seems to have considered any potential turnovers in those areas as too risky. I think the biggest problem I had was this weird 'gaslighting' whereby he'd say things like 'no risks is a risk' (which look nice as a pull-quote) yet he went on to make us the most timid, risk-averse of sides. That and continually telling us we were 'playing well' (which actually worried me greatly because I think he believed it)...anyway...I genuinely apologise to any Frankophiles who find this opinion distressing.