Igor the Interim

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

One thing I have learnt from Tudor's time (other than we really don't know what is going on day to day with the players and coaches)...we must have seriously lacked fitness, and that is 100% on Frank's shoulders.
Our running stats the last few games have been significantly higher, and we outran Liverpool by (I believe) nearly 4km as a team on Sunday. Tonight we were at it the entire match, same on Sunday, and each game we scored in the 90th min or later.
What it tells me is that when Tudor said we were unfit he was right, and that I really have no f ucking clue what Frank was up to that our players were so unfit during the season. It makes me wonder whether the reason Paratici wanted this guy at Xmas was because he could see this, knows Tudor is a fitness guy, and knew he'd need a few games to make it take root?
Anyway, the man is showing some skills and cajones now, delighted that my nervous 'fan' insecurity was not in charge of decision making post Palace!!!!!

Yeah…I’d been defending Frank’s approach because I was trying to see the logic in it, because I was thinking surely the decision makers at the club couldn’t be so wrong. Boy was I wrong!

A team with our quality should not be geared to only attacking in like 30 minutes of a game maximum. We should not be defending for our lives against bottom half teams for the majority of games. But that was what was happening.

I think appointing Frank will go down as the weirdest, most massive headloss of a club in a long time. The guy was just wholly unsuited to what we needed in almost every conceivable way, and that decision, and the decision to stick with him for so long, may yet relegate us.

 

[SteveAWOL]

One thing I have learnt from Tudor's time (other than we really don't know what is going on day to day with the players and coaches)...we must have seriously lacked fitness, and that is 100% on Frank's shoulders.
Our running stats the last few games have been significantly higher, and we outran Liverpool by (I believe) nearly 4km as a team on Sunday. Tonight we were at it the entire match, same on Sunday, and each game we scored in the 90th min or later.
What it tells me is that when Tudor said we were unfit he was right, and that I really have no f ucking clue what Frank was up to that our players were so unfit during the season. It makes me wonder whether the reason Paratici wanted this guy at Xmas was because he could see this, knows Tudor is a fitness guy, and knew he'd need a few games to make it take root?
Anyway, the man is showing some skills and cajones now, delighted that my nervous 'fan' insecurity was not in charge of decision making post Palace!!!!!

Wish the nepo-babies had heeded Paratici’s advice and got Tudor in before January so that our players were able to run relentlessly during NLD; as the psychological damage of getting battered by those gobby Goons yet again was clearly bad for squad morale plus the opportunity to put a dent in their title hopes would’ve been a nice filip for fans who’ve been traumatised from watching us pick up a pathetic 37 points from our last 38 PL home games.

Sounds like Tudor is cut from the same cloth as Conte & Ventrone, which should put squad in good stead should Pochettino return next season…

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[thfcsteff]

Yeah…I’d been defending Frank’s approach because I was trying to see the logic in it, because I was thinking surely the decision makers at the club couldn’t be so wrong. Boy was I wrong!

A team with our quality should not be geared to only attacking in like 30 minutes of a game maximum. We should not be defending for our lives against bottom half teams for the majority of games. But that was what was happening.

I think appointing Frank will go down as the weirdest, most massive headloss of a club in a long time. The guy was just wholly unsuited to what we needed in almost every conceivable way, and that decision, and the decision to stick with him for so long, may yet relegate us.

I bit my tongue and supported him when he arrived because I support the club. I wanted to believe he would be worth it. But it didn't take long for me to see he was not going to do us any good.
What I have been surprised by, is the reality that we really weren't very fit/ready for the graft. I mean, WTF were they doing under TF to be so unprepared?

 

[El Dante]

I really don’t understand why we couldn’t press like this under TF. We seemed to start the game pressing for five minutes each time and then just stop. Clearly it was a fitness issue and raises significant questions.

I didn’t want Thomas Frank, but tried to buy into it, as we had to really. I was so negative about him and criticised him early on. But would always want to see better times. I would want to somehow believe that I was wrong about him and that he could get the job done. He talked a good game at first but then the matches started and we looked far from where we needed to be.

It’s frustrating that rival supporters just think our players are brick as we finished 17th last season and here we are again. When the reality is that we have a very good squad that has suffered from poor management, low confidence and injuries. If only we could start our best team, managed well, then just think where we could be.

Imagine if last night we had had our best lineup available then maybe we could have overturned the deficit. Instead we go into the summer, likely lose a few key players and then who knows which manager arrives next and where we go from here.

It didn’t need to be this way. Appointing Thomas Frank may well have set us back a few seasons at least by the time we get to where we want to be.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Tudor starting to get a tune, proof that managers need time and calm, even in emergencies. You cant rely on cliches of "new manager bounce" to keep you up

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Frank is a very special in that he's the first Spurs manager in a long, long time whose profesionalism and ability look questionable. Some of the others you liked, disliked, some lost control of the situation or were just plain wrong but at least, you could see what they were trying to achieve. There was a method and an end goal.

With Frank, it seems there was absolutely nothing: no identity, no patterns, no philosophy... and the fitness training left a lot to be desired (something that had been clear for a while). When he got the sack, I thought he was dealt a poor hand but with hindsight, from his first press conference to his last game as a Spurs manager, I believe he shot himself in the head.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Frank is a very special in that he's the first Spurs manager in a long, long time whose profesionalism and ability look questionable. Some of the others you liked, disliked, some lost control of the situation or were just plain wrong but at least, you could see what they were trying to achieve. There was a method and an end goal.

With Frank, it seems there was absolutely nothing: no identity, no patterns, no philosophy... and the fitness training left a lot to be desired (something that had been clear for a while). When he got the sack, I thought he was dealt a poor hand but with hindsight, from his first press conference to his last game as a Spurs manager, I believe he shot himself in the head.

i mean being absolutely balanced i think there was 100% improvement in our defensive organisation initially and that led to an uptick in results away from home. But as the fitness levels fell away that went increasingly out the window and it doesn't excuse the home form. If we even had normal midtable home form we wouldn't be anywhere near the drop zone

 

[Mr Gogolak]

i mean being absolutely balanced i think there was 100% improvement in our defensive organisation initially and that led to an uptick in results away from home. But as the fitness levels fell away that went increasingly out the window and it doesn't excuse the home form. If we even had normal midtable home form we wouldn't be anywhere near the drop zone

We even had a few good results at first but nobody could ever tell what the project was. We weren't outrunning the opposition. We didn't keep the ball well but we weren't a good counter-attacking team either. We weren't that good at crossing. We couldn't pass the ball. Then he lost control of the dressing room and the writing was on the wall.

The fitness issue is absolutely unacceptable though. I usually wish former managers well but, in this case, he really deserves some of the stick he's getting, in my opinion.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

We even had a few good results at first but nobody could ever tell what the project was. We weren't outrunning the opposition. We didn't keep the ball well but we weren't a good counter-attacking team either. We weren't that good at crossing. We couldn't pass the ball. Then he lost control of the dressing room and the writing was on the wall.

The fitness issue is absolutely unacceptable though. I usually wish former managers well but, in this case, he really deserves some of the stick he's getting, in my opinion.

Yeah i agree. We needed evolution not revolution. Accepting Ange took Audere est facere to a bonkers (and unsustainable) level, all we needed is the full backs to be a bit more sensible and provide width rather than join as late box attackers and we needed a midfielder to consistently drop when we pushed on. Tudor is showing you can have a fluid system that is good to watch while staying relatively tight at the back all while pressing aggressively for every ball.

Frank was a "we need to bin off the lurch to Angeball entirely" but with a squad by that point completely unsuited for it. I've said time and again that VDV, Romero, Udogie and Porro are NOT natural defenders. You want to play low block with them you are in for trouble. They are all very good on the ball and VDV's pace in particular is a massive "recovery" asset.

They are all best in a front-foot, high-line aggressive system where we don't actually have to defend that much as the other team can't keep the ball.

What we needed after Ange was an Ange dialled down a couple of notches. 100% not Frank.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Hats off, that was a great performance he got out of the available squad.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeah i agree. We needed evolution not revolution. Accepting Ange took Audere est facere to a bonkers (and unsustainable) level, all we needed is the full backs to be a bit more sensible and provide width rather than join as late box attackers and we needed a midfielder to consistently drop when we pushed on. Tudor is showing you can have a fluid system that is good to watch while staying relatively tight at the back all while pressing aggressively for every ball.

Frank was a "we need to bin off the lurch to Angeball entirely" but with a squad by that point completely unsuited for it. I've said time and again that VDV, Romero, Udogie and Porro are NOT natural defenders. You want to play low block with them you are in for trouble. They are all very good on the ball and VDV's pace in particular is a massive "recovery" asset.

They are all best in a front-foot, high-line aggressive system where we don't actually have to defend that much as the other team can't keep the ball.

What we needed after Ange was an Ange dialled down a couple of notches. 100% not Frank.

The missing 'link' has literally been the
thing that links football.....PASSING.

To do it at speed, with inventiveness, surprise, bravery and belief.

Regardless of system/formation...passing gets you everywhere.....out of trouble, through the lines, behind the defence etc etc

And imo it's a between the ears thing. All these players can pass.

As soon as Carrick took over United started doing the same. Hopefully we are on that path...as I witnessed last night the passing was heading in the right direction.

 

[Rafa87]

Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

(Edit: I know my response but curious to see if it’s the majority)

 

[Mikey10]

Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

He shouldn't be considered imo. He's been brought in to do a certain job - being the permanent manager requires an entirely different skill set.

Hopefully we are able to say, "Thank you very much, job done" and everyone goes away happy.

 

[El Dante]

Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

I would thank him for his work and wish him well in future but really can’t see that he is a long term option.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

No, we bid farewell and wish him the best. Hopefully does the job we need him to, which is to keep us up. Dont get romanticised.

Bigger question for United that with Carrick.

 

[lurker of old]

All depends on how well he does over the remaining games of this season. If we start winning, get a winning habit, and the team feel comfortable with him in charge, then of course he should be considered. Maybe he's the solution, we won't know till the season ends.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

(Edit: I know my response but curious to see if it’s the majority)

It depends what the other options are. If it's Poch, then bin Tudor in a second. If we're scrambling around with Di Zerbi or Silva or worse though, I'd give Tudor a punt on say a 2 year deal

 

[harr1984]

People are talking as if there's a plethora of great realistic managerial options - there really aren't.

Getting the buy in of the players at this club seems to be half the battle, if he can achieve that along with building on the football being played of late (plus of course results) then I don't see why he shouldn't be under consideration.

Paratici has got a lot of criticism on here without people really knowing if deserved, but if had listened to him and employed Tudor when he wanted maybe we might not find ourself in the mess we do right now....

 

[billyiddo]

This place

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I bit my tongue and supported him when he arrived because I support the club. I wanted to believe he would be worth it. But it didn't take long for me to see he was not going to do us any good.
What I have been surprised by, is the reality that we really weren't very fit/ready for the graft. I mean, WTF were they doing under TF to be so unprepared?

I can only assume that Frank thought we were fit enough for the kind of Brentford ball, lower mid table nothingness he had us playing. But maybe he was just completely oblivious to how bad the levels were. Again, trying to be balanced, maybe there was something in him thinking the squad was run ragged under Ange and needed a reset period of less running? There were also games where for a 30 minute period we looked utterly physically dominant over the opposition. Even against Liverpool with ten men.

But it’s not to defend Frank, because ultimately he had his it all wrong. And was such a bad choice. Whatever he thought we were doing, it wasn’t the right thing.