Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Gazza]

Can you show me who’s saying/pretending it didn’t happen?

The only reason Ange was kept on was that he finished 5th the season before and we had the Europa League to win. If we don’t have either/both of those things, he’s gone after Everton or Leicester in January.

Frank doesn’t have those things and has lost to a similar group of relegation candidates. He has no improvement to point to and no past experience to suggest he’s got what this club needs (except maybe getting a team promoted from the Championship.)

Only thing I would add to that is that Frank however did very well in getting Brentford to being a stable premier league club which is an achievement in itself. I think that’s harder to do than winning tin pot trophies in Japan, Australia or Scotland.

 

[billyiddo]

Can you show me who’s saying/pretending it didn’t happen?

The only reason Ange was kept on was that he finished 5th the season before and we had the Europa League to win. If we don’t have either/both of those things, he’s gone after Everton or Leicester in January.

Frank doesn’t have those things and has lost to a similar group of relegation candidates. He has no improvement to point to and no past experience to suggest he’s got what this club needs (except maybe getting a team promoted from the Championship.)

The conversation that was taking place when you joined in? eg Frank didn't join a top 6 team vs He did because we finished 5th two seasons prior.

I'd say that the latter is choosing to ignore a pretty big elephant in the room and is an opinion/point often repeated on here.

 

[Bishop]

Is it, really? How much did we pay for him? 47m? He's 24, so theorically closer to his peak years and yet we sold him for 35m. I'm not his greatest fan, but taking a 12m hit on our top scorer at 24 doesn't strike me as a great piece of business.

Of course, since Frank wasn't going to use him, his value would drop further but that's not 'good business' - it's damage control.

Selling him was always going to be damage control. No one was ever going to pay the £47m we paid, he was just not that calibre of player. If we really wanted to try and get as much of our money back as possible the time to sell him was probably last summer when the top scorer tag and the EL "winner" were more prominent.

 

[afsoc4life]

Only thing I would add to that is that Frank however did very well in getting Brentford to being a stable premier league club which is an achievement in itself. I think that’s harder to do than winning tin pot trophies in Japan, Australia or Scotland.

Yeah it is harder than winning the Europa as well aight...

 

[tommysvr]

The conversation that was taking place when you joined in? eg Frank didn't join a top 6 team vs He did because we finished 5th two seasons prior.

I'd say that the latter is choosing to ignore a pretty big elephant in the room and is an opinion/point often repeated on here.

You mean the article? It's clickbait garbage. I still don't see anyone saying that last year didn't happen.

 

[Bishop]

Our players would look as good as theirs if they had confidence, intent and better attacking tactics
.

Umm the quality of their attack is levels above our own now. Yes last season i'd argue we were better than them and even then we still somehow managed to finish below them in the league.

Then you add the summer transfer window which made a difference. Where United suffered last season was the lack of Moments FC players who have papered over their cracks for years. This summer they went big by getting a couple more of those random element players in Cunha and Mbuemo to add to the Bruno they already had.

Add that they then did the very simple thing of not playing the awful 3 at the back that didn't suit any of their squad in the first place and you have a team that was already trending positively. All of their attackers walk straight into our first 11 let alone our squad.

Can you show me who’s saying/pretending it didn’t happen?

The only reason Ange was kept on was that he finished 5th the season before and we had the Europa League to win. If we don’t have either/both of those things, he’s gone after Everton or Leicester in January.

Frank doesn’t have those things and has lost to a similar group of relegation candidates. He has no improvement to point to and no past experience to suggest he’s got what this club needs (except maybe getting a team promoted from the Championship.)

This one here.

He took over a team that was 5th the season before and had finished in the top 6 for 17 out of last 20 seasons, and he may finish worse than 17th at this rate.

Honestly mate the excuses are an amazing reach at this point, he's not the 5th worse or 3rd worse, he's literally statistically the worst, 28% win rate, he's behind Nuno, Potter & Amorim.

@tommysvr I fully get why you would be disappointed with what Frank has offered so far. In essence why sack Ange to bring in someone who has performed equally poorly. That is totally valid and probably the reason why Frank will lose his job in the summer given how things have gone.

Do you actually want him sacked right now rather than in the summer? I guess if your fear is relegation then maybe it makes sense, but if that doesn't happen (and I accept it might just as I thought last year it might at this stage last season) is there any real benefit to sacking him now rather than the summer? Are we likely to get our next permanent appointment to join at this stage of the season? Is there even an outstanding candidate available that the opportunity cost is too high not to appoint right now?

 

[billyiddo]

You mean the article? It's clickbait garbage. I still don't see anyone saying that last year didn't happen.

OK mate

 

[tommysvr]

This one here.


@tommysvr I fully get why you would be disappointed with what Frank has offered so far. In essence why sack Ange to bring in someone who has performed equally poorly. That is totally valid and probably the reason why Frank will lose his job in the summer given how things have gone.

Do you actually want him sacked right now rather than in the summer? I guess if your fear is relegation then maybe it makes sense, but if that doesn't happen (and I accept it might just as I thought last year it might at this stage last season) is there any real benefit to sacking him now rather than the summer? Are we likely to get our next permanent appointment to join at this stage of the season? Is there even an outstanding candidate available that the opportunity cost is too high not to appoint right now?

I'd say that's just a mistake from Raziel. He knows how bad we were last season...he was saying very similar things about Ange as he is Frank.

In regards to your question, I don't know to be honest. I don't think we're in real danger of relegation. I think the squad's got enough in it to get 3 more wins, which should be enough. So I'm pretty numb to it all at the moment.

I agree, I don't see the need to rush into sacking him because there's no clear stand out candidate to come in, either permanently or as a caretaker. But that's just so depressing in itself. Not even 12 months on from our greatest modern success (literal success) and we're just sleepwalking until the end of the season?

My frustration is not with Frank. I don't think Frank is the problem. I think he's a fine coach, just so completely unsuited to Spurs. The problem is the decision making that gets us to him being appointed. People said keeping Ange would have been the emotional decision. I'd argue appointing Frank was even more emotional. This insane desire to go so far away from Ange in just about every way. The 'a pragmatist will solve all' thinking.

 

[tommysvr]

OK mate

If I'm wrong, just link to the posts? I'm happy to say 'ok yeah there are people who are saying last year didn't happen.'

 

[Mikey10]

Yeah it is harder than winning the Europa as well aight...

Doing that consistently probably is tbf.

I know we’re not supposed to bring up the quality of the teams in the EL last year on here, and that we’re (according to some) denigrating the club’s achievement if we do, but it is a fact that it was poor, with - for the first time - no CL teams dropping down. The final was played between two teams who finished right on the edge of relegation from the PL.

It was a great night; we were all delighted that we broke our trophy drought; and it was something else to see Sonny lift a cup before he left. But the fact that we were favourites to win the competition before it kicked off told its own story.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

My frustration is not with Frank. I don't think Frank is the problem. I think he's a fine coach, just so completely unsuited to Spurs. The problem is the decision making that gets us to him being appointed. People said keeping Ange would have been the emotional decision. I'd argue appointing Frank was even more emotional. This insane desire to go so far away from Ange in just about every way. The 'a pragmatist will solve all' thinking.

This sums up where I am with it, but apply this to the squad also and near on all decision being made currently, including that to stick with Fab etc

 

[billyiddo]

If I'm wrong, just link to the posts? I'm happy to say 'ok yeah there are people who are saying last year didn't happen.'

Why so that you can say someone who has repeatedly made the same point about our level is mistaken/didn't mean it? Someone else literally called the point rubbish a page back - i guess they were just mistaken too and actually meant to agree... I don't need to look back further to find support for my opinions, if you do then agree to disagree.

 

[tommysvr]

Why so that you can say someone who has repeatedly made the same point about our level is mistaken/didn't mean it? Someone else literally called the point rubbish a page back - i guess they were just mistaken too and actually meant to agree... I don't need to look back further to find support for my opinions, if you do then agree to disagree.

I don't think saying this isn't our level is the same as last season didn't happen. The reason the last manager was sacked and the reason this manager will be sacked is because this isn't our level.

 

[Finney Is Back]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...with-even-worse-stats-than-amorim/ar-AA1VSLta

It’s official: Thomas Frank is the worst ‘big six’ manager ever – with even worse stats than Amorim​

Thomas Frank at Tottenham has the worst Premier League record of any ‘big six’ manager of the modern era – even worse than Ruben Amorim at Manchester United.

Ignore that…. He is Spurs’ 3rd worst ever manager of the PL era (and dropping!)…. and that is some going when you think back to some of the godawful teams we had in the 90s.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Shame we can't lace up our revenue and put it on the pitch

The way you do that is by appointing good recruitment departments, DoFs and managers in the first place. All the things that our club have failed to do.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Are you saying we hired him understanding we’d likely stay in the bottom half? I thought we hired him because 17th was”unacceptable” and we should be in the top half.

It was a ‘top 6’ squad apparently mate, and that was before spending big money in the summer. I think the comments were that “any manager other than Ange could get this lot into Europe”. That doesn’t detract from the fact that Frank has been an abysmal manager for us though. I’ve no idea how he has survived for so long.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He was never a head coach/ manager before afaik. If the only reason for not ditching Frank is “remember Stellini” then that’s a weak argument.

It’s starting to become all the Frank defenders have though.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He took over a team that was 5th the season before and had finished in the top 6 for 17 out of last 20 seasons, and he may finish worse than 17th at this rate.

Honestly mate the excuses are an amazing reach at this point, he's not the 5th worse or 3rd worse, he's literally statistically the worst, 28% win rate, he's behind Nuno, Potter & Amorim.

He’s behind even Christian Gross for GHod sake!

 

[Finney Is Back]

What has the season prior got to do with what he took over? A year is a long time in football - he didn't come in off the back of us playing well, he took over a team that was a mess, losing every week and riddled with injuries - now granted he hasn't been able to turn any of that around so far but it's not him that has brought us to this level it's the level we were at when he took over.

I think he actually took over a team who had just won the Europa league, who had one long term injury (Kulusevski). He then got a lot of money to spend on the squad in the summer.

 

[billyiddo]

I think he actually took over a team who had just won the Europa league, who had one long term injury (Kulusevski). He then got a lot of money to spend on the squad in the summer.

You're smart enough to know that league performance is a better indicator of quality so don't waste my time with these bad faith arguments.

@tommysvr here's another one