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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, i don't agree with such a policy, but i can sort of understand it with one or two very big bonafide stars like Kane or even Son.

I don't think any of our players can/should have such importance. Maybe Ange's cup win last season has caused more problems lol
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Players are more valuable than managers to clubs
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yeah, but do we have such a valuable and star-studded squad at this time who'd have the gall to go above the manager's head to Vinai et al atm?
Plus would Vinai entertain such so new in his role?
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I think some of them would
And they will also likely point to the fans reaction too
Who knows for sure
But the players IMO are not enjoying this football so they will do whatever suits them
 
parklane1 said:
Indeed, and i was there when we did get relegated in 77 and i can tell those who think we are bad enough to get relegated now need to give their head a shake. We have a lot of work to do but all this noise about us being rubbish is way over the top IMO.
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I do remember '77 but that first year back in 78 is when my memories really kick in...yes...some of the noise about us needs perspective!
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think some of them would
And they will also likely point to the fans reaction too
Who knows for sure
But the players IMO are not enjoying this football so they will do whatever suits them
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I think in fairness to Frank, a point I heard earlier today around the players being told that for 2 years, no matter what, we never stop. We attack, we play, we’re brave etc. And then suddenly, they have a whole different idea. It’s defensive solidity, it’s breaking at the right times, it’s crosses above all else. It’s pressing at certain moments, tracking at others. It’s basically a whole new idea in so many respects. That must be hard on the players, and must be harder for Frank because the previous idea was so extreme that to unwind it and get them around to his way was going to be harder. So I have a lot of sympathy for that and I think a big reason for the results, performances and seeming tension is that sort of dynamic.

That said, I thought the promise was Frank was about getting the best out of what he has. He was flexible, pragmatic, and would see that we had a talented squad that just needed a more balanced approach to not being so open and we’d do a lot better this season. But it hasn’t really worked out like that. It turns out Frank is a coach who needs time to get his own ideas across. So then we have to question whether this is ultimately the vision we want to build towards. And that’s why when he’s asked about how to break down low blocks he talks about crosses…it concerns me.

People point to Arteta getting 6 years but there was always a greater vision there. He had other coaches saying he was doing interesting and unique things tactically. You could see why it was worth investing the time. While I sympathise with Frank needing time to unwind the previous culture, I’m not yet convinced that his vision is one worth investing in. At its best, we’ll attack and defend at the right times and make other teams look naive. But are we going to get there? Will the players want to get there? Is this vision worth investing in long term, and requiring another transitional season to get right? Is anyone seriously convinced that it is?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think in fairness to Frank, a point I heard earlier today around the players being told that for 2 years, no matter what, we never stop. We attack, we play, we’re brave etc. And then suddenly, they have a whole different idea. It’s defensive solidity, it’s breaking at the right times, it’s crosses above all else. It’s pressing at certain moments, tracking at others. It’s basically a whole new idea in so many respects. That must be hard on the players, and must be harder for Frank because the previous idea was so extreme that to unwind it and get them around to his way was going to be harder. So I have a lot of sympathy for that and I think a big reason for the results, performances and seeming tension is that sort of dynamic.

That said, I thought the promise was Frank was about getting the best out of what he has. He was flexible, pragmatic, and would see that we had a talented squad that just needed a more balanced approach to not being so open and we’d do a lot better this season. But it hasn’t really worked out like that. It turns out Frank is a coach who needs time to get his own ideas across. So then we have to question whether this is ultimately the vision we want to build towards. And that’s why when he’s asked about how to break down low blocks he talks about crosses…it concerns me.

People point to Arteta getting 6 years but there was always a greater vision there. He had other coaches saying he was doing interesting and unique things tactically. You could see why it was worth investing the time. While I sympathise with Frank needing time to unwind the previous culture, I’m not yet convinced that his vision is one worth investing in. At its best, we’ll attack and defend at the right times and make other teams look naive. But are we going to get there? Will the players want to get there? Is this vision worth investing in long term, and requiring another transitional season to get right? Is anyone seriously convinced that it is?
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Arteta is an ex captain and player at the club
Won a trophy in season 1 with someone else’s team
Can quote Pep

That’s why he got time and even then they looked at others and interviewed them

The players are the key and they do not look like they are enjoying any of the football. Luckily they can wear masks in training in this weathee
 
I wonder with DL gone...the crowds ire is a bit more scattergun?

DL turned them all into haters...then walked out :)

You can't switch hate on and off (not if you're a hater :)) . Toxicity needs a new home, a new outlet.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Arteta is an ex captain and player at the club
Won a trophy in season 1 with someone else’s team
Can quote Pep

That’s why he got time and even then they looked at others and interviewed them

The players are the key and they do not look like they are enjoying any of the football. Luckily they can wear masks in training in this weathee
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Yeah I think it will come down to whether they ultimately buy in to his vision and feel it is worth investing in. The Kane / Nuno thing is interesting. I do wonder which players would move against Frank.

I’m willing to give Frank more time to see these changes through. Like if you have a whole different system of when to press for example it can cause a lot of confusion, which is we’re seeing. But I am concerned about the possession game and I think this where the players will ultimately throw in the towel if they aren’t seeing results improve.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yeah I think it will come down to whether they ultimately buy in to his vision and feel it is worth investing in. The Kane / Nuno thing is interesting. I do wonder which players would move against Frank.

I’m willing to give Frank more time to see these changes through. Like if you have a whole different system of when to press for example it can cause a lot of confusion, which is we’re seeing. But I am concerned about the possession game and I think this where the players will ultimately throw in the towel if they aren’t seeing results improve.
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It's an interesting debate. Our club should have been a lot harder on Kane and they should never have compromised Nuno in the way they did on that summer's fiasco. We needed to be more Man Utd / Fergie with Beckham and Stam. I don't even remember Harry getting a max 2 week fine for not getting his sorry arse back from Miami. That entire thing made our club look anything but a winning club with a winning mentality.

What we're getting back into in this topic is how our club compares to the real winning clubs when it comes down to player power and player fragility. It's not just about player quality which we seem to focus too much on at times.

We have a column A and column B situation. Column A questions Frank and his tactics based on the players he has at his disposal. Column B questions the player's character to execute. Both columns are totally relevant at the same time and are intrinsically linked. It's definitely not helping Frank with all these losses of concentration and the amount of individual errors we're seeing. It doesn't give him a chance to embed anything new.
 
Muttley said:
It's an interesting debate. Our club should have been a lot harder on Kane and they should never have compromised Nuno in the way they did on that summer's fiasco. We needed to be more Man Utd / Fergie with Beckham and Stam. I don't even remember Harry getting a max 2 week fine for not getting his sorry arse back from Miami. That entire thing made our club look anything but a winning club with a winning mentality.

What we're getting back into in this topic is how our club compares to the real winning clubs when it comes down to player power and player fragility. It's not just about player quality which we seem to focus too much on at times.

We have a column A and column B situation. Column A questions Frank and his tactics based on the players he has at his disposal. Column B questions the player's character to execute. Both columns are totally relevant at the same time and are intrinsically linked. It's definitely not helping Frank with all these losses of concentration and the amount of individual errors we're seeing. It doesn't give him a chance to embed anything new.
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He hasn’t been helped by every experiment failing not giving him answers
And for whatever reason he hasn’t picked the same team back to back so the players maybe don’t know what’s needed
It’s all confused and a mess
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He hasn’t been helped by every experiment failing not giving him answers
And for whatever reason he hasn’t picked the same team back to back so the players maybe don’t know what’s needed
It’s all confused and a mess
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You still get answers from experiments that fail.

Back to back games aren’t really back to back, they have played hours of games in training between them.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He hasn’t been helped by every experiment failing not giving him answers
And for whatever reason he hasn’t picked the same team back to back so the players maybe don’t know what’s needed
It’s all confused and a mess
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Yep, column A.

Said this before, but our club might be suffering a massive hangover from the injury crises we found ourselves in. We now rotate out of conservatism of players welfare, so we always change the side. It also feels like we don't train the guys hard enough to have the match day intensity and our direct tactics are also about conserving energy and protecting from injury. One could argue that this entire thing feels more about the paranoia of more injuries rather than what makes sense.
 
Muttley said:
Yep, column A.

Said this before, but our club might be suffering a massive hangover from the injury crises we found ourselves in. We now rotate out of conservatism of players welfare, so we always change the side. It also feels like we don't train the guys hard enough to have the match day intensity and our direct tactics are also about conserving energy and protecting from injury. One could argue that this entire thing feels more about the paranoia of more injuries rather than what makes sense.
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He also doesnt have the luxury of us dive bombing a comp to concentrate on just one like last season
 
Muttley said:
Yep, column A.

Said this before, but our club might be suffering a massive hangover from the injury crises we found ourselves in. We now rotate out of conservatism of players welfare, so we always change the side. It also feels like we don't train the guys hard enough to have the match day intensity and our direct tactics are also about conserving energy and protecting from injury. One could argue that this entire thing feels more about the paranoia of more injuries rather than what makes sense.
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It’s 100% paranoia
It’s panic mode
This didn’t work so I’ll try that
The issue is we don’t know what Frank’s plan A is.
I want a flexible coach but not one that’s so flexible he is basically Jelly because that eventually just falls over and loses any flavour
What he probably now knows is he should stick with a team for at 3 games back to back. That would have been novel but it’s even something be didnt do at Brentford either
 
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