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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Mikey10 said:
Odd that it was never really mentioned until we won the trophy. Would almost make you feel that it was developed after that as an excuse for 22 PL defeats, and in a vain attempt for someone to keep their job.
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Well…..no. You just needed to look at the team selections to get the idea. I wouldn’t think Ange coming out and saying ‘I’m proposing the EL with my team selections’ would have gone down well with anyone, and it would have created more outside pressure on the team in Europe. But it was obvious with the team selections and the intensity with which we played what was going on.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yes, my point is that consistent poor form started in December.

I’m not saying we would then ultimately win every game that we put a half decent side. Part of prioritising the EL is that we’d likely save up our intensity for those matches, and play a more controlled way in the league. But again, I’m not saying that we’d never lose a match, but I’m also not going to lose it over the fact that we lost to a side in form playing away from home. It happens.

Personal opinion though, Davies at CB and Gray at right back just isn’t a top defence. And we lost 4-2, not 4-1.
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4-2 4-1 who cares...........
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
For sure. But we went through a period of the season with zero depth, with Gray and Davies as centre backs, and we ended up actually winning something.

Competing in all of them last season would have meant reducing our chances of winning the one we could actually win. Provided we were safe from relegation, I was personally happy to throw everything at the Europa, and didn’t care one bit about the league results.
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As a fan I agree. I was happy to sacrifice the league form if it meant winning something but that’s because we’ve been so starved of silverware. However, the manager can’t have that mindset and Ange didn’t help himself by saying the league form would have been improved if not for our participation in Europe. Not that it would have saved his job, but had he said yeah it’s not acceptable there’s no excuse for being 17th that might have demonstrated that he got it.
 
Mikey10 said:
Odd that it was never really mentioned until we won the trophy. Would almost make you feel that it was developed after that as an excuse for 22 PL defeats, and in a vain attempt for someone to keep their job.
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I don't think it was an attempt to keep their job, more PR for the next one.
I for one was fine with that, even if i knew the truth deep down, as i was happy for Ange to use us for his CV elsewhere as he'd get what he wanted after giving us what he wanted; win:win....until this September of course...
 
Grays_1890 said:
My mate said something that I think was fairly spot on for me, this all feels like the Arsenal Snobbery over Unai when he went there
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Hmm... Unai had a track record of silverware and playing in Europe (not to mention winning European trophies).
If snobbery is involved Arsenal fans had less reason to feel entitled than us at this point. Not trying to excuse us in any way, but there are levels between the two coaches, plus one is managing in the top European competition whilst the other was trying to get his team back into it...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm... Unai had a track record of silverware and playing in Europe (not to mention winning European trophies).
If snobbery is involved Arsenal fans had less reason to feel entitled than us at this point. Not trying to excuse us in any way, but there are levels between the two coaches, plus one is managing in the top European competition whilst the other was trying to get his team back into it...
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And they still treated him like dirt, my point also has nothing to do with the comparisons of their track records, more to how they are/were treated, it does feel paralleled
 
Jurgen the German said:
As a fan I agree. I was happy to sacrifice the league form if it meant winning something but that’s because we’ve been so starved of silverware. However, the manager can’t have that mindset and Ange didn’t help himself by saying the league form would have been improved if not for our participation in Europe. Not that it would have saved his job, but had he said yeah it’s not acceptable there’s no excuse for being 17th that might have demonstrated that he got it.
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Personal opinion but I looked at through percentages. Eg competing as much as possible (through selections and intensity) in the PL and EL, maybe we had a 35-40% chance of winning the EL.

Then there’s various steps you can take to increase the odds in the EL, through selections and intensity. I was supportive of Ange increasing the odds as much as possible so that we actually ended the season with something. The crisis that started around December meant that we weren’t getting anything out of the league, that was done. So as much as he could do to increase the odds to say 50 or even 60%, I was happy for him to do.
 
Grays_1890 said:
4-2 4-1 who cares...........
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Yeah look, we lost an away game to a side in form. It happens, I don’t think it proves anything. Especially when playing 50% of our first choice defence, including a teenager in his first PL season who had been shunted around 3 different positions, and a defender who had proven capable on the left side of a three, but never consistently in a 2.

But just to sketch out my position more clearly, in comparison to lots of people on here I think our squad is actually quite good. I’d say it’s capable of top 6, certainly top 8 at a minimum, and I’d like to think with everything going our way we could be top 5. I think that now, and I thought that last season too. I don’t go for this ‘the squad isn’t good enough’ that seems to be becoming prevailing now, and I didn’t think it last season either.

‘17th is not good enough’ devoid of all context, is of course true. But had Ange stayed on I think we would hand been no where near 17th this year. Something I did not factor in to my own ‘positivity’ on Ange was whether the league move to set pieces would have caught him out more, and whether he would have adapted with different player profiles. So maybe this season wouldn’t have been as better as I expected, but it certainly wouldn’t have been 17th.

I think we should be in the top 6, pretty much always at a minimum. But last season, I was happy to do whatever it took to make sure we ended the season with something, after everything they went through. Anything to reduce the percentage odds of winning the EL for some idea of competing in the PL to end up in 12th or something…not worth it for me.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, in that case we can include our treatment of Nuno as a comparison to Emery as well? Maybe Juande Ramos too?
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In hindsight I would say you could, Ramos situation was clearly compounded by the sale of Keane and Berbatov and he was let down badly.

Me and you actually had a conversation about Nuno at the time if I remember rightly after I wrongly predicted that Conte was the man that summer but was eventually proven right later that he was a fall guy from the start. But you could say the same, although the players wanted him gone for sure, esp Kane who pushed it with DL
 
Grays_1890 said:
In hindsight I would say you could, Ramos situation was clearly compounded by the sale of Keane and Berbatov and he was let down badly.

Me and you actually had a conversation about Nuno at the time if I remember rightly after I wrongly predicted that Conte was the man that summer but was eventually proven right later that he was a fall guy from the start. But you could say the same, although the players wanted him gone for sure, esp Kane who pushed it with DL
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Kane did what?? Tell more...!
 
parklane1 said:
I will never really know [ and i am sure most fans would/do not] IF ange decided to give up the league games in order to concentrate on winning a cup. What i will say winning a trophy gave me one of the best nights i have had for a LONG time as a supporter and i will never forget THAT night.
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Agree same, but fans have also been really disingenuous on those "would you take a cup win rather" tiresome debates on here which were had for years.

And like I don't rate Porro or Vicario, but the fans in the ground are not even giving players than won them the comp the benefit of the doubt and have made them the enemy by booing their every touch. In that respect, despite my feelings on each of their ability, the weekend was a disgrace and so is the subsequent justification of it because of ticket prices

I always knew that the whole "win and I will be happy" stuff wouldn't actually be true.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Levy gave Kane an open door policy and they would often have conflabs about things. Kane didn't like Nuno at all they didn't click and if what I was told was right, Kane has a say in the ear before the axe was wielded
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Much more common that people think
I suspect the players will be doing the same now
 
Grays_1890 said:
Agree same, but fans have also been really disingenuous on those "would you take a cup win rather" tiresome debates on here which were had for years.

And like I don't rate Porro or Vicario, but the fans in the ground are not even giving players than won them the comp the benefit of the doubt and have made them the enemy by booing their every touch. In that respect, despite my feelings on each of their ability, the weekend was a disgrace and so is the subsequent justification of it because of ticket prices

I always knew that the whole "win and I will be happy" stuff wouldn't actually be true.
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I can't dance with any of that and sad to say the match going atmosphere is really getting poor compered to the way it used to. I know i am a old fart but a lot of fans nowadays seem to forget they are there to support our GREAT club but can not wait to get booing when things go wrong.

Maybe its sign of the times and I want it and i want it now cry. Sad really because we are there to support our club but it does not take long to hear the moans and bitching at the first bad pass/move.:disappointed:
 
parklane1 said:
I can't dance with any of that and sad to say the match going atmosphere is really getting poor compered to the way it used to. I know i am a old fart but a lot of fans nowadays seem to forget they are there to support our GREAT club but can not wait to get booing when things go wrong.

Maybe its sign of the times and I want it and i want it now cry. Sad really because we are there to support our club but it does not take long to hear the moans and bitching at the first bad pass/move.:disappointed:
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Yeh I feel the same, maybe it is me, I will take that if it is TBH
 
Grays_1890 said:
Levy gave Kane an open door policy and they would often have conflabs about things. Kane didn't like Nuno at all they didn't click and if what I was told was right, Kane has a say in the ear before the axe was wielded
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Hmm, so the rumours of him doing the same with Pochettino are likely true too?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Much more common that people think
I suspect the players will be doing the same now
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Hmm, i don't agree with such a policy, but i can sort of understand it with one or two very big bonafide stars like Kane or even Son.

I don't think any of our players can/should have such importance. Maybe Ange's cup win last season has caused more problems lol
 
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