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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

DubSpur said:
Nobody is trying to tear down what he did at Brentford because of Andrews doing well there. Andrews was brought up because of a question about who is doing better currently than Frank 4 months into a job. The response was Andrews. That's not tearing down what Frank did there.
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There's many reasons that could be floated about 'who is doing better'....but the sum of any and all of it ....is Andrews is doing 1pt better.

So very near, but not quite, a pointless discussion. :)
 
Jurgen the German said:
Most likely the league form would have been better if not for the EL. However, it’s not acceptable to finish 17th regardless of that competition. Whoever manages us has to juggle multiple competitions and you have to compete in all of them.
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For sure. But we went through a period of the season with zero depth, with Gray and Davies as centre backs, and we ended up actually winning something.

Competing in all of them last season would have meant reducing our chances of winning the one we could actually win. Provided we were safe from relegation, I was personally happy to throw everything at the Europa, and didn’t care one bit about the league results.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Both those incidents were about 'the want' (or not) to show appreciation to the fans.

If the players weren't united, you'd be seeing a lot worse on the pitch.
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Sure, I have said often that I think the players are trying, I think they are earnest in their efforts and ‘together’ so to speak. But this instances just speak to something not being right for me.

I read something (I think in The Athletic) about a former top level manager / coach saying about Frank trying to get Micky and Djed to clap the fans after the derby that he will have learned from that. That you don’t ask top players who are fuming after a poor performance and loss in a derby to clap the fans, because you put yourself in the position of looking like they are showing dissent to you.

There’s clearly a transitional time for the team. I think even tactically there’s confusion on the pitch, it’s not intentional ‘we don’t get on anymore’ but more confusion. When to press, when to attack, who goes who stays. And this is all natural for a new way of doing things. And I think what to do about the fans is part of this too, clearly there are different views on how to deal with them.

I’m not saying it’s all because of Frank not being good enough, I think it’s mainly down to the transition in culture and way of working, and a bit of him learning to work with this level of player. But I go back to something not clicking, something feeling misaligned. And it may all work itself out. But it also may not if results keep sliding, as much as everyone wants it to.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
For sure. But we went through a period of the season with zero depth, with Gray and Davies as centre backs, and we ended up actually winning something.

Competing in all of them last season would have meant reducing our chances of winning the one we could actually win. Provided we were safe from relegation, I was personally happy to throw everything at the Europa, and didn’t care one bit about the league results.
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But we are equally now navigating the same but in a harder comp in the CL, the fact that we won't win it and won the EC doesn't change the dynamic, we are still navigating two comps with a very similar squad and one thats actually injury ravaged. We are also doing it in a managers first season and not his second.

I was also at the Forest game last year which came after the Wolves game and we lost both, pretty badly and we were not playing anywhere near our weakest sides. In fact the poor form started way before December, so although yes we can give grace because of the EC win, it does not tell the full story at all.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
For sure. But we went through a period of the season with zero depth, with Gray and Davies as centre backs, and we ended up actually winning something.

Competing in all of them last season would have meant reducing our chances of winning the one we could actually win. Provided we were safe from relegation, I was personally happy to throw everything at the Europa, and didn’t care one bit about the league results.
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Although it was galling to have to lap it up week after week in the PL....due to the way we were decimated with injuries from nov/dec onwards and the effect that had, you could easily argue it was the sensible approach, and in reality, a brave approach.

Not that you were risking relegation, as this would have already been thought of as a remote possibility at the time of setting the course for the last 4 months of the season, but the negative optics of multiple losses just to chase a chance in a 1 off game in a final. Plus fair play to the powers that be, as if they were part of the discussion (surely they were?), then they waved goodbye to 25-30m in league placing prize money.

I was supportive of it, as I could see the logic. And fwiw that is not with hindsight because we won.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Most likely the league form would have been better if not for the EL. However, it’s not acceptable to finish 17th regardless of that competition. Whoever manages us has to juggle multiple competitions and you have to compete in all of them.
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The whole "gave up in the league to concentrate on the EL" is nonsense. We were just getting schooled week in, week out by anyone half-decent (actually just most teams).

I am grateful for Ange bringing us a major trophy after such a drought but will not give him any 'credit' for that nonsense excuse.

As you say, any manager of THFC has to be able to juggle the league and Europe. It might be that Frank is struggling with having to do that for the first time and i do have some sympathy with that, especially as it is right in at the deep end with having to tackle the highest level of European competition there is as well as having to make his team competitive in the top 6 (and not just keep his team competitive in general and outside the relegation zone).
 
Grays_1890 said:
But we are equally now navigating the same but in a harder comp in the CL, the fact that we won't win it and won the EC doesn't change the dynamic, we are still navigating two comps with a very similar squad and one thats actually injury ravaged. We are also doing it in a managers first season and not his second.

I was also at the Forest game last year which came after the Wolves game and we lost both, pretty badly and we were not playing anywhere near our weakest sides. In fact the poor form started way before December, so although yes we can give grace because of the EC win, it does not tell the full story at all.
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The Wolves match had Gray and Davies in our defence with Porro and VDV rested. Forest I’d say we actually played well that game, it was one of the rare games that actually looked like Angeball in possession in the second half of last season. We just made a dreadful start.

When did the poor form start in your view? I’m looking at the fixtures right now. The 1-1 at home to Fulham seems to be the beginning of the slide.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
The Wolves match had Gray and Davies in our defence with Porro and VDV rested. Forest I’d say we actually played well that game, it was one of the rare games that actually looked like Angeball in possession in the second half of last season. We just made a dreadful start.

When did the poor form start in your view? I’m looking at the fixtures right now. The 1-1 at home to Fulham seems to be the beginning of the slide.
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Davies is a decent LCB and Gray was at RB, we were hammered 4-1, it was not a 4-1 hammer side we put out.

We were rubbish from December from memory, that wasn't because of plans for the EC
 
glorygloryeze said:
The whole "gave up in the league to concentrate on the EL" is nonsense. We were just getting schooled week in, week out by anyone half-decent (actually just most teams).

I am grateful for Ange bringing us a major trophy after such a drought but will not give him any 'credit' for that nonsense excuse.

As you say, any manager of THFC has to be able to juggle the league and Europe. It might be that Frank is struggling with having to do that for the first time and i do have some sympathy with that, especially as it is right in at the deep end with having to tackle the highest level of European competition there is as well as having to make his team competitive in the top 6 (and not just keep his team competitive in general and outside the relegation zone).
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Odd that it was never really mentioned until we won the trophy. Would almost make you feel that it was developed after that as an excuse for 22 PL defeats, and in a vain attempt for someone to keep their job.
 
thfcsteff said:
For those of us who remember the dark days in the murky early 90s of having to win at Oldham midweek in late April to feel that we'd escape the drop (thank you Vinnie Samways), last season was nowhere close to being in real trouble...as you quite rightly said, had we been in real trouble, he would not have been able to stack it all on one chip.
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Indeed, and i was there when we did get relegated in 77 and i can tell those who think we are bad enough to get relegated now need to give their head a shake. We have a lot of work to do but all this noise about us being rubbish is way over the top IMO.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Davies is a decent LCB and Gray was at RB, we were hammered 4-1, it was not a 4-1 hammer side we put out.

We were rubbish from December from memory, that wasn't because of plans for the EC
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Yes, my point is that consistent poor form started in December.

I’m not saying we would then ultimately win every game that we put a half decent side. Part of prioritising the EL is that we’d likely save up our intensity for those matches, and play a more controlled way in the league. But again, I’m not saying that we’d never lose a match, but I’m also not going to lose it over the fact that we lost to a side in form playing away from home. It happens.

Personal opinion though, Davies at CB and Gray at right back just isn’t a top defence. And we lost 4-2, not 4-1.
 
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