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Putin & Russia
- Thread starter Rorschach
- Start date
Silly McSilly Face
Allan Nielsen
China: We can’t afford for Russia to lose Ukraine war https://share.google/5lbtMlHy3U0Bu1w4W
And there you have it....
And there you have it....
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
Because the words of a manipulative hostile state is to be taken literally and without question.
Silly McSilly Face
Allan Nielsen
Because it's true. And without significant Chinese backing, Russia would likely have retreated in the face of western-backed Ukrainian resistance. Russia has relied on Chinese and Iranian manufacturing and supply as much as Ukraine has relied on western support.
The reality is that China sees Russia as a buffer and a key ally in preventing it from becoming isolated geopolitically. It is fundamentally true that China relies on a strong Russia. If Russia fails and the authoritarian anti-western powers in Russia crumble and pro-west/pro-democracy Russians take power and take steps to look westward...thats a threat to the communist party. Because suddenly China has lost a powerful ally, has the west on its borders and is completely isolated.
SpurMeUp
David Ginola
What’s interesting is the different recent histories of Russia and China. What works better revolution or evolution?
Soviet empire is ended with the US being involved and promising happy days of capitalism, do it our way now! The winning way!
China evolves communism. Keeps stability. Switches up its centralised economy. But still retains a strong watch. China is far less militaristic. Far more peace loving.
Which has fared better?
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
Well it all gets a bit complex when you seem to advocate for a pro Trum position which is explcitly anti-china.
I think i have said several times that even as a leftie I do not understand how China was able to manipulate everyone so much into beleiving without question where Covid came from. NOT that I am saying it leaked out of a lab (though I do personnally lean towards that conclusion - whilst taking on board alternative views) but the weird blind level of trust to a state that has made serious efforts to infiltrate our society.
"Tough on China" is perhaps the only issue I actually agree with Trump on consistently.
As a right winger what interest is there to give up on Ukraine to fulfil the wishes of a hostile state like China? One which practices elite cpature and has even infiltrated the royal family (via prince Andrew).
Thats without getting onto the wishes of Russia. Another belligerent hostile state.
I always find it baffling the right suddenly wants to cater to these guys. They have always been presented as the "villains" in political narratives and conjectures. Even in popular culture they have been portrayed as the bad guys.
Suddenly do what they want is popuar. Why on earth is it desriable that people who have very meticiulusly been portrayed as villanious at every corner are suddenly people we should suck up too?
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
I am sorry becuase I think I am personally misintepreting what you are saying but I don't think "peace loving" is a phrase that can be applied to any nation that has been found to be activley involved in infiltrating our society and also making very precise, consistnt and growing demands on Taiwan.
I think "more calculative" or able to play "the long game" might be the more approriate way of phrasing it.
SpurMeUp
David Ginola
Which wars are China involved in? Which wars are your nation involved with?
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
I mean for sack of transparency I am a left leaning Brit who I think you would struggle to find advocation for any war since WW2. and the rest
My knowledge of the Korean was is non existent (I am only 30) and the rest I would never jusitfy.
I think if you are activley intruding into a populace and observing what they are up to (an undipsutable fact as people have been caught) then thats an act of war in and of itself.
As is allowing Covid to enter the global community whilst pulling the doctors coming out with news of it away. Even if Covid did not come from a lab, abducting the dcotor who came out with the truth and tried to alert the world - thereby affording no time for other nations to forumlate a response - is a hostile act of war, and perhaps THE most costly act of warfare conducted in the 21st century.
All of these are forms of epsiongage/biological war.
Add to the fact China is openly saying Taiwan belongs to them...
Did I imagine 30 years of growing up in a capitalist country with China and Russia being driven to me as hositle nations? Or did I imagine it?
Choose one or the other neoliberalism. Either China and Russia are our sworn enemies as the system has reinforced in my mind repeatedly. Or serious questions and answers need to be given by Western society for the fear mongering they have put into place against innocent Russia and China.
Only a full appology will suffice from the Western elites for their brain washing of the (respectable) nations these two powers so clearly are.
At least when its convient for the right.
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
And yes I would expect a full appology for challenging the commuist systems if Russia and China are not beligrent.
I think they shoud then be appaluded for respresenting communist uptoias which have never failed to steer from their course. Neoliberlism should grovel if Russian and Chinese models are indeed correct.
Pick your side neoliberals. Theres no middle ground here
I think they shoud then be appaluded for respresenting communist uptoias which have never failed to steer from their course. Neoliberlism should grovel if Russian and Chinese models are indeed correct.
Pick your side neoliberals. Theres no middle ground here
Craig_J
Sergei Rebrov
So go ahead right wing neo liberals
Grovel and accept you were always wrong and deliberately lying about China and Russia.
Or do the alternative. And accept they are STILL hostile states as depcited for the last half a century.
It gets confusing when you guys don't pick a course.
Appologise for the offenses to the altenrative communist systems or accept their continued status as hostile nations.
It is so simple.
Grovel and accept you were always wrong and deliberately lying about China and Russia.
Or do the alternative. And accept they are STILL hostile states as depcited for the last half a century.
It gets confusing when you guys don't pick a course.
Appologise for the offenses to the altenrative communist systems or accept their continued status as hostile nations.
It is so simple.
SpurMeUp
David Ginola
@Craig_J why get bogged down in left vs right? Personally I’d extricate yourself from these base human instincts to seek and defend an in group. Make a judgment simply on the facts, not someone else’s doctrine.
In this instance it’s a simple counting exercise: who are China at war with? And who are we at war with?
We are supply arms that are killing people
in Yemen, to Isreal and we’re fueling a proxy war against Russia.
What are China doing? Belt and road. Using money to build and help developing nations.
In this instance it’s a simple counting exercise: who are China at war with? And who are we at war with?
We are supply arms that are killing people
in Yemen, to Isreal and we’re fueling a proxy war against Russia.
What are China doing? Belt and road. Using money to build and help developing nations.
kb 1984
Sean Davis
If you live in this part of the world you would be very concerned about China.
Both Labor & liberals governments have been concerned by China growing military presence in the Indo-Pacific region and potential security threats. they have said in recent times they want Taiwan back & are willing to use force if necessary. Australia has said we would go to Taiwan aid should that happen goodbye Australia.
SpurMeUp
David Ginola
China should just be submissive? Know its place? Doff its cap to the US and establish hegemony.
If you look at facts: it isn’t engaged in any wars. It spends money on economic aid investing in developing nations.
While the US is responsible for fuelling wars all over the planet.
Are you worrying about the right things?
kb 1984
Sean Davis
Agreed with you 100% especially the US but China is something to be concerned about if you live in this part of the world.
some of those countries they helped are in serious financial debt & when China call in those debts they are fudged. You know belt & braces doesn't exist anymore right. It's all about there military now it's the biggest in the world. they wanted to put a military base on Fiji. Fiji rightly said no thanks. Why would China want a base on fiji. Wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them
SpurMeUp
David Ginola
I’d wager that Chinas belt and road is less damaging than the IMFs decades of work. Idk for sure but having looked at case studies on the IMFs work keeping developing nations under the yoke, it can’t be much worse!
As for China wanting a base on Fiji I should imagine it wouldn’t be bothered were it not for similar US bases right in its back yard. Do you see China setting up bases in Mexico?
kb 1984
Sean Davis
I'm with you imf are fudging useless always have been the UN are not far behind telling these smaller counties about climate change they know the water is lapping there doorsteps. Who can help them financially to mitigate the impact of climate change the IMF. Sure that's what these small countries need money. How about trying to fix climate change instead. These people don't want money they want to actually stay where they were born.
I know the US are based here which we pay for as do South Korea they pay 1 billion a year have no idea were there other bases are
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China are very much involved in war - they literally came out the other day and said they can't afford Russia to lose the war in Ukraine. What do you think that means?
All major countries are very much invested in wars one way or another. Not a pop at you but I can't stand all this country x is better than country y nonsense, they are all as bad as each other all motivated by money and ego at whatever the cost.....