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ENIC

i'm consider everything i can get my hands (eyes) on.
once again not saying levy is stupid, but saying that his first goal is financial not football honours.
i am impatient for spurs to win something, i don't think that's wrong.
its also possible that enic has taken securing the future to the extreme and the cost of that is short to medium term success on the pitch.
but funny how some people seem to be absolutely sure that can not be the case.

ricky2tricky4city said:
You're down the twitter rabbit hole, aren't you?
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johnola said:
We are still not in the market for the best players of the best clubs.

We should be hunting down the top assets of Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Madrid.

The premier league has won a war it didn’t even know it was fighting, and we have to capitalise.
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Those clubs are still buying
And they are not selling their best players to anyone
 
Bedfordspurs said:
we can afford to spend on players
We have and we are doing thag
What we can’t do is manage what other clubs do
The business model is why we can invest
The issue remains that it’s a restricted model as it’s self sustaining unlike being funded by a country for example
You really seem to act as though we haven’t brought any players. I just don’t get it TBH
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can we afford to spend more on layers?
can we manage to do what other clubs do more than we are doing now?
its a restricted model and its self funding but has enic found the best way? or is there another within the same constraints?
i've never said we haven't bought any players but i keep saying we don't invest enough to keep us comfortably competing in top four - i don't get why you don't register this point.
 
metalgear said:
i'm consider everything i can get my hands (eyes) on.
once again not saying levy is stupid, but saying that his first goal is financial not football honours.
i am impatient for spurs to win something, i don't think that's wrong.
its also possible that enic has taken securing the future to the extreme and the cost of that is short to medium term success on the pitch.
but funny how some people seem to be absolutely sure that can not be the case.
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It’s because we can read too
And maybe understand the position in a different way

here’s the facts… again

Tranfrnrkt data
After the ground
22/23 139.15 net and does not include agreed commitments such as Kulu and Porro
21/22 61.28 net (does allow for lamelas fee either currently valued at 14m)
20/21 97.2 net
19/20 84 net
Before the ground
18/19 +5m
17/18 19.7 net
16/17 31.2 net

Average before the ground 15.3
After the ground 95m plus lamela, Aurier and Doherty write offs ..

Arsenals average over that period is 119M.
Liverpools is 36.7m….
United is 139.8M
Chelsea 153.7…. Including the recent 543.6M
City 58.4m

So the two top teams over that period City and Pool, closely followed by Chelsea have sold well (we are horrendous at the like arsenal and united) which off sets so many issues. If we can shift the brick… the spending becomes easier
 
metalgear said:
can we afford to spend more on layers?
can we manage to do what other clubs do more than we are doing now?
its a restricted model and its self funding but has enic found the best way? or is there another within the same constraints?
i've never said we haven't bought any players but i keep saying we don't invest enough to keep us comfortably competing in top four - i don't get why you don't register this point.
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No one is comfortable in the top 4 other than city
If the table finished tomo 3 teams would be in the CL who weren’t in it last season
As I keep on saying we are investing more than city and Liverpool
They have been shoe ins for the top 2
You can’t right all the wrongs overnight without making more mistakes. Football isn’t that easy
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Most of the debt has come about because we have built the training ground and stadium.
So I can take that debt away, along with the stadium and training ground.

So we're back in the old Lane. How are you going to carry out YOUR plan now?
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maximise the stadium through events but put off anything else like hotels and residential development til later.
with the stadium secure find ways to get better success and cement ourselves in the top four.
then go for phase II further debt on hotels and residential development.
that would be my plan.

look at that chart - less financial debt, more transfer debt - like regular football clubs.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Ive always said this.

After problems with the delays to the stadium, that at the time cost us. We have actually lucked out on many fronts.
1. We got the thing completed before COVID. Imagine the logistical issues if we were not finished by the time COVID showed up.
2. The cost and availability of materials would have been a weighty headache during covid.
3. We refinanced just at the last knockings of cheap interest rates. And had 'normal' profitable operational years to show lenders we were a safe (good) bet.
4.Inflation then turns up right on que to help inflate away that pile of debt.

As you say, there is no motivation to pay the debt off. We may make payments if we have some surplus, but as you suggest what would be the point. Instant access savings rate is at 2.75% which is similar to our bond average payments rate.

When the bullet payment is called for, we dont have to pay it, we can refinance. Banks like exemplary payers, it's solid income for them.
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Yes spot on.

Although we are still committed to phase 3 with the housing and hotel part of the development project- not sure where that all stands right now- costs must be unrecognisably higher now.
 
metalgear said:
maximise the stadium through events but put off anything else like hotels and residential development til later.
with the stadium secure find ways to get better success and cement ourselves in the top four.
then go for phase II further debt on hotels and residential development.
that would be my plan.

look at that chart - less financial debt, more transfer debt - like regular football clubs.
Click to expand...
We owe plenty in transfer debt
You have very old data in that chart
I’m fully expecting a £200m outlay this summer but…
It will include £70m on Porro and Kulu
And we will likely bring in £50m in sales
And I think our fans will still complain
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No one is comfortable in the top 4 other than city
If the table finished tomo 3 teams would be in the CL who weren’t in it last season
As I keep on saying we are investing more than city and Liverpool
They have been shoe ins for the top 2
You can’t right all the wrongs overnight without making more mistakes. Football isn’t that easy
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we would be MORE comfortable if we'd bought a proper CCB and LCB for sure - the fact is we are leaking goals like a bottom 10 team and we are not taking measures to address that.

1 billion in debt and we can't afford even one of the two positions? we laugh at clubs overpaying for certain positions but that's what liverpool did and they won the league. let that sink in.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We owe plenty in transfer debt
You have very old data in that chart
I’m fully expecting a £200m outlay this summer but…
It will include £70m on Porro and Kulu
And we will likely bring in £50m in sales
And I think our fans will still complain
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hopefully we can see the swissramble update this.
post-covid a lot has changed and i agree,
but for us to comfortably compete in top four, its logical that we continue to spend like the top four - spending like the top five but hoping to get top four is not comfortable but you need to take more risks to win things.
 
metalgear said:
we would be MORE comfortable if we'd bought a proper CCB and LCB for sure - the fact is we are leaking goals like a bottom 10 team and we are not taking measures to address that.

1 billion in debt and we can't afford even one of the two positions? we laugh at clubs overpaying for certain positions but that's what liverpool did and they won the league. let that sink in.
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Yeah and since then Liverpool have made a lot of mistakes in the transfer market and now won’t even be in Europe next season
They also made the transfers you talk about after the coach had been there a few years and they had fixed other issues
Our defence has actually kept 4 clean sheets lately. The key for us not conceding is not giving teams a HUGO. Makes a big difference when he doesn’t throw it in the net
And we will fix that defence this summer I’m sure. That’s the plan that was leaked a while back
 
metalgear said:
hopefully we can see the swissramble update this.
post-covid a lot has changed and i agree,
but for us to comfortably compete in top four, its logical that we continue to spend like the top four - spending like the top five but hoping to get top four is not comfortable but you need to take more risks to win things.
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How do you fund the risks?
No one is certain of top 4 even with spending
You think Chelsea will get there (well you did 2 days ago) and they can’t even buy a goal
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Pace with who?
You really make it sound like we’re brick and not spending
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no i think it sounds like we should keep up with top four and its competitive

you're presenting a false dichotomy and should try thinking along the lines "enic is doing well but can do better"....
 
metalgear said:
no i think it sounds like we should keep up with top four and its competitive

you're presenting a false dichotomy and should try thinking along the lines "enic is doing well but can do better"....
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But how do they fund doing better?
You never answer that question
No one ever does
It’s always we must spend more
Then when presented with facts that show we are spending more the answer is it’s not the right players…
Then when we buy more again it’s always… yeah but we had them already (kulu and Porro) so the money doesn’t count
They can’t win
The onky way we can do what some fans what is get a new owner in. That hasn’t happened so far so we are left with ENICs model
 
Bedfordspurs said:
How do you fund the risks?
No one is certain of top 4 even with spending
You think Chelsea will get there (well you did 2 days ago) and they can’t even buy a goal
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sure but the higher the risk, the higher the return.
the lower the risk the lower the return.

it seems that you are risk averse and fully bought into enic's low risk low return stratgy.
perhaps it comes down to how long before we think THFC wins something.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But how do they fund doing better?
You never answer that question
No one ever does
It’s always we must spend more
Then when presented with facts that show we are spending more the answer is it’s not the right players…
Then when we buy more again it’s always… yeah but we had them already (kulu and Porro) so the money doesn’t count
They can’t win
The onky way we can do what some fans what is get a new owner in. That hasn’t happened so far so we are left with ENICs model
Click to expand...

i've suggested above -
- postpone conservative investments and debts on hotels and residences that pays out decades later
- invest in short term higher risk success on the pitch now.

it might be too late now, as we have such huge debts, you've gotta to ask how much leeway Enic has vs. the banks?
is it approprioate to say that the banks own spurs now? and that enic has to abide by the bank's demands - espeically with uncertain global economic conditions ahead?
 
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