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Formula One on Sky

Kandi1977 said:
Wrong example. It would be equal to one team having the majority of posession, pressing all game, leading 12-0 in shots on target, and then getting done on the counter in added time. It happens and its part of the game.
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think you're grasping here because you're Team Max. Maybe i'm the opposite.

The fact is, Masi fudged up majorly and it's clear why he did it. As per my point above, he cut the rest of the race off, including Sainz who was 3rd, to get a final lap he wanted, despite it going against the written rules. There is no argument of that.
 
dingdongo said:
For the experts here, Whats the reason they keep checking off laps when the safety car comes out. Why not pause on lap x of y until the safety car goes off?
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You can red flag the race. Stop all the cars, clear the track, then restart. In hindsight that would have been a better move. Then we'd have had 4 laps to finish it. I guess Hamilton would have changed tyers too in this scenerio.

The other option was to leave the backmarkers where they were and restart the race. The backmarkers would have been blue flagged (told to get out the way) and Verstappen would have caught Hamilton after half a lap? I think that is correct? The issue was, when you allow backmarkers to unlap, you have to let the safety car go round another lap - which would have ended the race behind the safety car.

The red flag option race control had would have probably favoured Hamilton and the second option to leave the backmarkers where they were, still would have favoured Verstappen as he had enough time to clear the lapped cars and have a good run at Hamilton on his older rubber.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You can red flag the race. Stop all the cars, clear the track, then restart. In hindsight that would have been a better move. Then we'd have had 4 laps to finish it. I guess Hamilton would have changed tyers too in this scenerio.

The other option was to leave the backmarkers where they were and restart the race. The backmarkers would have been blue flagged (told to get out the way) and Verstappen would have caught Hamilton after half a lap? I think that is correct? The issue was, when you allow backmarkers to unlap, you have to let the safety car go round another lap - which would have ended the race behind the safety car.

The red flag option race control had would have probably favoured Hamilton and the second option to leave the backmarkers where they were, still would have favoured Verstappen as he had enough time to clear the lapped cars and have a good run at Hamilton on his older rubber.
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The red flag could have given the title to Max too, pending on the start off the grid, certainly a far, far, far better scenario than what actually went down though. Now the Max fans are saying "yeh but you can't red flag a race as it wasn't a serious enough crash" - er... clearly it's been established Masi has re-written the rules for final lap so not sure the rulebook is an adequate source to rely on.
 
Diamond Lights said:
The red flag could have given the title to Max too, pending on the start off the grid, certainly a far, far, far better scenario than what actually went down though. Now the Max fans are saying "yeh but you can't red flag a race as it wasn't a serious enough crash" - er... clearly it's been established Masi has re-written the rules for final lap so not sure the rulebook is an adequate source to rely on.
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This is a sport for spectators. So Masi and everyone wants a spectacle (that he's created far more of a spectacle that will run though the off-season is ironic). Race control have various tools at their disposal but have to think fast. Clearly, first off he plays by the rules, then thinks, well we want them to race, and how dull it would be for the years championship to end behind the safety car. How lame would that be? So they had two options to adjudicate by the rule of the sport. Red flag - which is only temporary - the race would restart and they'd have had 4 laps to finish. Or leave the backmarkers within the field, and bring in the safety car. Both options would have been legit. The compromise they came up with was as you say re-writing the rules. So Mercedes do have a case. Whether they will bother going to court is another question. Might make them look bad. And F1 is mainly a halo vanity project for manufacturers.
 
Diamond Lights said:
The red flag could have given the title to Max too, pending on the start off the grid, certainly a far, far, far better scenario than what actually went down though. Now the Max fans are saying "yeh but you can't red flag a race as it wasn't a serious enough crash" - er... clearly it's been established Masi has re-written the rules for final lap so not sure the rulebook is an adequate source to rely on.
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I think final lap, with nothing to lose, Verstappen would have just piled into the side of Hamilton at T1 and hoped for a favourable decision from the stewards.

Much like he tried to on the first lap but probably would have come in hotter to make sure it stuck.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
This is a sport for spectators. So Masi and everyone wants a spectacle (that he's created far more of a spectacle that will run though the off-season is ironic). Race control have various tools at their disposal but have to think fast. Clearly, first off he plays by the rules, then thinks, well we want them to race, and how dull it would be for the years championship to end behind the safety car. How lame would that be? So they had two options to adjudicate by the rule of the sport. Red flag - which is only temporary - the race would restart and they'd have had 4 laps to finish. Or leave the backmarkers within the field, and bring in the safety car. Both options would have been legit. The compromise they came up with was as you say re-writing the rules. So Mercedes do have a case. Whether they will bother going to court is another question. Might make them look bad. And F1 is mainly a halo vanity project for manufacturers.
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But it wasn’t a race, it couldn’t be a race with the relative difference in tires, Masi had two options, impose the rules as written and guarantee Lewis the race, or discard them and guarantee it for Max.

Yes I’m disappointed by the outcome, but I’m angry at the application, there is nothing worse in professional sport than incompetent officiating.

Spectators are important in professional sport, but the rules should never be interpreted simply to enhance a spectacle, that crosses a line, there is a reason only children like the WWE.
 
Baleforce said:
Yeah, yes I really wanted Lewis to win, but


But it wasn’t a race, it couldn’t be a race with the relative difference in tires, Masi had two options, impose the rules as written and guarantee Lewis the race, or discard them and guarantee it for Max.

Yes I’m disappointed by the outcome, but I’m angry at the application, there is nothing worse in professional sport than incompetent officiating.
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Masi could have restarted the race without any lapped cars going through.

That would have been unusual but within the rules. It also would have allowed for a final racing lap with a chance (albeit small) of Max catching Lewis.

But that wouldn't have given Karen Halliwell what she wanted, so he couldn't do that.
 
Baleforce said:
But it wasn’t a race, it couldn’t be a race with the relative difference in tires, Masi had two options, impose the rules as written and guarantee Lewis the race, or discard them and guarantee it for Max.

Yes I’m disappointed by the outcome, but I’m angry at the application, there is nothing worse in professional sport than incompetent officiating.

Spectators are important in professional sport, but the rules should never be interpreted simply to enhance a spectacle, that crosses a line, there is a reason only children like the WWE.
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Yeah I agree. Sucks when Officialdom are the story. But had Masi red-flagged - stopped the race while they cleaned up the mess then restarted it - there would have still been a fair race to be had. Probably with both drivers on fresh rubber having it out over 4 laps.

I am not 100% on this, but if Masi had left the backmarkers in the field - Verstappen would have overtaken them within max a lap as the backmarkers would have been shown a blue flag right? To get out the way. Verstappen would have likely taken half a lap to clear the backmarkers, and then had maybe two-thirds of a lap to catch and pass Hamilton. It would have been closer, more exciting, and most importantly legit. Mercedes have a case now, and its a shame this option wasn't followed as the outcome would have been mighty close with the laps remaining, and no one could have questioned it.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yeah I agree. Sucks when Officialdom are the story. But had Masi red-flagged - stopped the race while they cleaned up the mess then restarted it - there would have still been a fair race to be had. Probably with both drivers on fresh rubber having it out over 4 laps.

I am not 100% on this, but if Masi had left the backmarkers in the field - Verstappen would have overtaken them within max a lap as the backmarkers would have been shown a blue flag right? To get out the way. Verstappen would have likely taken half a lap to clear the backmarkers, and then had maybe two-thirds of a lap to catch and pass Hamilton. It would have been closer, more exciting, and most importantly legit. Mercedes have a case now, and its a shame this option wasn't followed as the outcome would have been mighty close with the laps remaining, and no one could have questioned it.
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Exactly, I think Max would have cleared the back markers (there would have been blue flags everywhere) and won.

And I’d have had nothing to complain about.
 
It's flimflam end of the day. Rules were written clear as day, none were followed so Masi could get some grandstand finish. To hell with the sport itself.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Wrong example. It would be equal to one team having the majority of posession, pressing all game, leading 12-0 in shots on target, and then getting done on the counter in added time. It happens and its part of the game.
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Your example is not appropriate as the officials changed the rules
 
Im not an F1 fan but the decision by Masi to say "let them race" to end the season with drama paid off in spades though right? For right or wrong? Probably only spoken about season by people outside in about 20 odd years, in some ways he has done his job
 
Grays_1890 said:
Im not an F1 fan but the decision by Masi to say "let them race" to end the season with drama paid off in spades though right? For right or wrong? Probably only spoken about season by people outside in about 20 odd years, in some ways he has done his job
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The opposite. The casual fan maybe drawn in as it was a 'grand season finale showdown', witnessed a brick show of a f.arce and is left thinking 'now I remember why I don't watch that steaming pile of turd'
 
I heard some racing journalist today saying that both Mercedes and Red Bull spoke at the preseason rules meeting about the topic of yellow flags at the end of races and they both urged the need to find ways to let them race to the finish rather then end races behind a safety car. I mean the FIA still bent the rules dramatically but the teams did actually get what they wanted.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
The opposite. The casual fan maybe drawn in as it was a 'grand season finale showdown', witnessed a brick show of a f.arce and is left thinking 'now I remember why I don't watch that steaming pile of turd'
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But had the race finished behind a safety car or Lewis win by 14 secs then the season would be put to bed as another boring farce. So I can kinda see the "let them race" idea because it is racing, Max took his chance and when you weigh it up with earlier decision lap 1 over the course of the whole race maybe it was the correct result
 
Grays_1890 said:
But had the race finished behind a safety car or Lewis win by 14 secs then the season would be put to bed as another boring farce. So I can kinda see the "let them race" idea because it is racing, Max took his chance and when you weigh it up with earlier decision lap 1 over the course of the whole race maybe it was the correct result
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There's no way that season could have been described as boring no matter what the outcome.

That was the best season in decades. It didn't deserve a stitch up at the end.
 
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