Daniel Levy - Chairman

[billyiddo]

A counterfactual argument regarding different owners is difficult. I am not really suggesting that we get rid of Levy and ENIC. We couldn't even if we wanted to.

I agree the balance has not been in our favour given the transfer fees and wages. But given the massive increase in equity in the club since ENIC took over we should be able to compete with our rivals and at least nick a trophy from time to time. Poch showed he could get a team to be title challengers, and to a Champions League final on a relative shoe string. Leicester showed you can win the league. Wigan won an FA cup. So right manager and investment at crucial times means it's possible to win a trophy. As @Finney Is Back put very eloquently in previous posts it is certainly partially down to the choices made by ENIC. We are talking about a club whose history was built on daring. We shouldn't forget that...

I appreciate it's frustrating that despite coming so close we always seem to come up short and often because of what appears to be a lack of investment at crucial times but i think what i have shown in the previous post and what the reality of the situation is, is that other owners running us within our means wouldn't have had us faring any better and in all likelihood wouldn't even have had us in the position to come up short in the first place (no club not part of that group has won more than 1 trophy, for us to expect different owners to have done better then we need to have seen other clubs winning multiple trophies, despite the financial handicap)

What's important is how we move forward now we have the stadium completed and should benefit from the revenue it brings - this puts us on a level with that group at the top, so gives us reason to have similar expectations to them. If in 5 years time we don't have trophies under our belt I'd be amazed.

 

[Baleforce]

There is always a serious problem when you can't find who's accountable for it. I think Levy, the CFO and whoever can't see the problem. I valued Mourinho mostly for that - to show management that our transfers suck. But it looks like the transfer committee won and do not realise that they themselves are the problem. Levy has to take full responsibility for this but he seems oblivious and makes no mention about it. High time that someone - a journalist, a blogger or even the THFC Trust or even the BBC give us an inside view of how our transfer committee works and why no one has claimed any responsibility for decisions (both good and bad).

Levy is accountable. I don’t think he’d still be in charge if the board thought he was hiding from his responsibilities.

Jose was part of that transfer committee, the signings we made whilst he was here all made perfect sense at the time and he was seemingly happy with them based on how they were used (even Bale, Jose was right about his fitness).

I don’t believe it’s ever time that anyone not employed by the club should see how things are done, certainly not the fans, it’s none of our business, and us knowing the intricacies wouldn’t help the club in anyway, that information being in the public domain only helps the businesses we compete with.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is a bad thing? A legit reason to criticise, or just a good ol winge?



Clarke was playing for Biesla. For all you know Biesla tipped Poch off, or maybe Poch was helping his mate out with this transfer. "Clarke was not a signing Pochettino wanted" is a naive statement, and probably not true. No way would Levy bring in a player Poch actively didn't want.

Seems like a lot of moany fans at the moment. When things are not working out, someone needs to be blamed? Look at the bigger picture and we are still in a fantastic position. Mourinho was a mistake. I didn't want Poch sacked and replaced with Mourinho, but Levy had an itch to scratch, and maybe it might have worked out with more time or a better defense. But there is no going back, only forwards. And Levy has shown time and again he's a competent leader of this football club.

That fact that Pochettino immediately loaned Clarke out and Pochettino very rarely sent players out on loan indicates to me that Clarke wasn't wanted by the manager. I suspect (and only suspect) that Clarke was a David Pleat recommendation. Note that I have no problem with the board signing David Pleat recommendations, Pleaty has a very good eye for a player.

 

[Finney Is Back]

1. The fixation with silverware is just rod - to actually beat yourself up. I don't watch Spurs to see them lift a cup. If that is all that is of interest support city.

2. We have been getting to finals. It's not like we have been midtable and not in the mix. Levy can't kick the balls, he can only facilitate us being in and amongst the top - and he has done that. Plus built a stadium and training complex, with less money because of the build, with doped clubs around us.

3. From the comments on here, anyone would think all the other clubs are just sitting on their arse waiting for us to improve and win things. You don't think every club is working tirelessly to get the best players, and win silverware?

Pre-Levy we were midtable, we could have easily had a similar trajectory to Everton. Or Villa for that matter. Do I think our fans are entitled? Absolutely. And its Levy that has given them these more lofty expectations. The irony is, the man who's delivered this higher platform from which to aspire, takes the blame from those 'fans' who cry because we didn't win a cup.

Point 3 is a key one here..... Almost every club was indeed working tirelessly to get the best players and win silverware.... Every club except us that is, we sat on our hands for a few years and gave the best manager we've had since the 1980s a completely inadequate transfer budget to compete. The irony is that we're now likely losing far more revenue through missing out on the CL than we would've needed to have spent on players to stay competitive and that is ignoring the other factor that continually trying to improve would've likely brought some trophies as well.

When I heard Pochettino's comments prior to the CL final I was extremely saddened. It indicated to me that things were not going to change at the club and that the manager felt that he was going to be asked to carry on having to defy the odds and produce miracles. I think Pochettino had a vision of us becoming a truly great club that could actually win the biggest two trophies in club football. I think that vision is add odds with the vision of the owners, which is instead for us to do the minimum possible to finish 4th to keep the value of the asset high.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The issue regarding trophies isn't one with Levy or our managers, that's a misdirection, it's just a fact of the modern game that the only teams that stand a chance are those with the big turnovers and big budgets - going by the numbers there's nothing to suggest we would have done better with different owners.

There's also not much to suggest we would've done any worse.... The last decade is the first decade since the 1940s that we have failed to win a single trophy.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The fact is, Levy has got Spurs closer to being able to compete with the top echelon. Most chairmen of midtable sides have not done as well. And he's done it with the backdrop of dropped clubs and building a stadium.

The detail about why transfers work or don't work is fascinating. We have had some spectacular successes and failures over Levy's tenure (Bale vs D Bently say). The main thing is, he is always trying. Pushing for an edge. Yes improvements can and should be made. By all means isolate what they are. We are a community. The club is aware of what fans think.

Alan Sugar is the gift that has kept on giving for ENIC..... Somehow Sugar has even managed to convince a portion of our fans that Spurs are a 'midtable' side. Spurs have always been one of the biggest 5 or 6 clubs in the country. When ENIC took over we had the 5th highest turnover in the country.

 

[billyiddo]

There's also not much to suggest we would've done any worse.... The last decade is the first decade since the 1940s that we have failed to win a single trophy.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine
Everton
Leeds Utd
Aston Villa

Ask them how much worse similar sized clubs could have fared over 20 years.

Again with the trophies, did you just ignore my breakdown showing that over this period only the rich clubs, of which we are not apart of, are the only ones to win trophies regularly?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I wonder why Pochettino does his PSG press conferences in English rather than his native Spanish? As surely the French hate us more!

Because a lot more French people speak English than Spanish I would imagine (especially in Paris).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine
Everton
Leeds Utd
Aston Villa

Ask them how much worse similar sized clubs could have fared over 20 years.

Again with the trophies, did you just ignore my breakdown showing that over this period only the rich clubs, of which we are not apart of, are the only ones to win trophies regularly?

4 clubs with exactly the same number of trophies as us in the last decade?

 

[billyiddo]

4 clubs with exactly the same number of trophies as us in the last decade?

Presumably you think Levys first 10 years were better than the next 10 yeah? Given we won a trophy and by the above post that's the only measure of progress...

 

[SpurMeUp]

Alan Sugar is the gift that has kept on giving for ENIC..... Somehow Sugar has even managed to convince a portion of our fans that Spurs are a 'midtable' side. Spurs have always been one of the biggest 5 or 6 clubs in the country. When ENIC took over we had the 5th highest turnover in the country.

Exactly @billyiddo Finney just look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, they could make a case for being a title-challenging side under Hall. What the fuk happened to them!? Just because they were up there at one point, it does not follow they should be now, or does it? By your reasoning, it does. Saudi Sportswashing Machine should be elite now, because they were then. The reality is quite different. The truth is, clubs like Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa Everton started to follow Levy's model trying to emulate us. Without huge financial backing we've done better than most. And with the new stadium and training ground, we're still ahead.

Everyone's point re. Levy and transfers is important and interesting. There is something there. But its more complex than saying we need a new job title - a DOF - and that will suddenly address things. It's worth trying to isolate what it is that we could improve with transfers. But you can never isolate them from the manager of the day and the clubs coaching culture - and that is something DL can develop: a coaching culture and setup which is independent of the manager for the youth teams.

 

[DTA]

4 clubs with exactly the same number of trophies as us in the last decade?

3 of which have been relegated and none of which have played champions league football, or challenged (ish) for the title

I want to win a trophy as well. But its not the only thing I care about as a football fan.

Look at it another way... we have been in multiple cup finals more than those teams combined within the Enic years, given that a one off game can go either way (underdogs have won finals), haven't Enic done their job (in a footballing sense) to put us in a position to succeed?

That's all management can do surely, put you in a position to succeed, whether you do or not come down to various factors, like luck, mental lity, fortitude, commitment, confidence, talent of management and players. Etc etc

 

[Finney Is Back]

Presumably you think Levys first 10 years were better than the next 10 yeah?

I think the first and second decades were much of a muchness. I think that if we'd been unlucky and Van Gaal had accepted our offer instead of turning us down we'd be sitting here now with the new stadium having put us on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

[StephenH]

My thoughts on our current state are we are still in the middle of a pandemic an ongoing financial nightmare for normally funded teams.
Timing is everything and covid could have hardly been more damaging for THFC coming just after opening our excellent new stadium.

 

[Finney Is Back]

3 of which have been relegated and none of which have played champions league football, or challenged (ish) for the title

I want to win a trophy as well. But its not the only thing I care about as a football fan.

Look at it another way... we have been in multiple cup finals more than those teams combined within the Enic years, given that a one off game can go either way (underdogs have won finals), haven't Enic done their job (in a footballing sense) to put us in a position to succeed?

That's all management can do surely, put you in a position to succeed, whether you do or not come down to various factors, like luck, mental lity, fortitude, commitment, confidence, talent of management and players. Etc etc

All 3 of which are back in the PL with owners who are prepared to pump their own money into their clubs to try to make them as successful as possible.

As I have said many times. ENIC have been OK owners. Levy has been an OK chairman. I don't hate our owners like Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans hate Ashley or like Arsenal fans hate Kroenke (though I actually see zero difference between ENIC and Kroenke). Spurs is a big club that generates a lot of income, our owners don't trouser that income like The Glaziers do at Man Utd. I don't think not trousering club income is something to be particularly lauded.

 

[Baleforce]

That fact that Pochettino immediately loaned Clarke out and Pochettino very rarely sent players out on loan indicates to me that Clarke wasn't wanted by the manager. I suspect (and only suspect) that Clarke was a David Pleat recommendation. Note that I have no problem with the board signing David Pleat recommendations, Pleaty has a very good eye for a player.

Was it not part of the Clarke deal that he would immediately be loaned back to Leeds? It happened the same day right?

 

[billyiddo]

All 3 of which are back in the PL with owners who are prepared to pump their own money into their clubs to try to make them as successful as possible.

As I have said many times. ENIC have been OK owners. Levy has been an OK chairman. I don't hate our owners like Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans hate Ashley or like Arsenal fans hate Kroenke (though I actually see zero difference between ENIC and Kroenke). Spurs is a big club that generates a lot of income, our owners don't trouser that income like The Glaziers do at Man Utd. I don't think not trousering club income is something to be particularly lauded.

You keep dropping in this 'ok/competent owners' line every so often when that clearly contradits the many, many other posts you make regarding him/them - when you say other owners couldn't have possibly done 'any worse' or that they were one wrong appointment away from leading us in to bankruptcy that shows what you really think so at least own your own opinions rather than try and paint a picture neutrality.

I think the first and second decades were much of a muchness. I think that if we'd been unlucky and Van Gaal had accepted our offer instead of turning us down we'd be sitting here now with the new stadium having put us on the verge of bankruptcy.

Our 00s performance/progress on the pitch was much of a muchness with our 10s? That's your position? An average league position of 9th with little to no European football is more or less the same as average of 4th with european football every year (?) half of the time being CL?

Really?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Was it not part of the Clarke deal that he would immediately be loaned back to Leeds? It happened the same day right?

Yep... Which again indicates to me that Pochettino had nothing to do with it. Imagine being a manager of a CL club that has spent a grand total of zero for 3 transfer windows in a row and then you finally get to spend £10m but don't even get the player?

 

[billyiddo]

The club needs a DoF that signs players for the medium to long term

I can't believe we bought Jack Clarke

 

[glorygloryeze]

The club needs a DoF that signs players for the medium to long term

I can't believe we bought Jack Clarke

It's all about the balance..when you have neglected the here and now for a year plus, it says alot that when you finally do some business it's still the buys for the future prioritized..and we wonder why we've regressed eh?