Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[billyiddo]

It's just too simple to assume that all the clubs and managers had the same situations. Covid and the summer Market has impacted everyone in their own ways.

agreed? same with normal preseasons, each and every club is different and things impact them differently?

Some more than others, out of the 9 players that we signed, i think we have gone through this again were Jose's choices ... you nor I know. But you can bet Levy had a hand in it.

of course Levy had his hand in it, like every manager at every club has people above involved with transfers - as with Covid and the pandemic this is not a unique situation that Jose finds himself in. It's not an argument in his defense. It is the same for him as it was the man before and will be for the man after. these are the circumstances in which he has to succeed.

fact is 9 players have been signed to aid making the squad his own - he openly praised the backing he has recieved from the club at the end of the window and we know Jose does not mince his words if he feels he has been let down so we have to take it that he has been happy with transfer activity, regardless of who were and who werent his choices.

Also covid has probably limited the quality and calibre of player Jose needs to address and implement his system.

don't quite understand your point here - why would the players required to implement his style of play change because of Covid?

Not all squad's are the same and not all need as much attention as each other.

agreed? we finished 6th last season, backed the manager in the summer to the point that he praised what he recieved - i think that shows that he's in a good position to progress on the pitch.

Like I have said we have failed to address out defence as a whole. Doherty was a value purchase and a decent punt but has not worked out so far, Reguilon looks the bees knees, and Rodon could yet flourish.... but neither address why sanchez and dier start games.

Not Jose's fault that GLC has been out and forced to play sissoko.

Jose has been choosing to play Sissoko ahead of Ndombele or Winks in CM - you have a point with our CB issues but not in CM, that's of his own doing.

Defensively speaking we signed 3 players + a GK in the summer, Dier and Sanchez look ropey agreed but our goals conceded shows the problem is actually in our ability to attack not defend so a bit of a missdirection to focus on the defense.

Yes not perfect but you cannot blame him for every single fudging thing including the covid bloody transfer window.

pointing out that Covid/the pandemic is not a unique situation is not blaming Jose for it - i just it's a bit of an easy get out of jail card for our lack of progression on the pitch between last season and this season.

I just hope we hang on to him and the team improves even if it means seeing you taking shots at him no matter what he achieves.

i just want to see improvent/progress and i think after 16 months you can make a fair judgement on whether the man in charge has done enough to show he can take us forward or not.

the fact that yours and others main arguments in support of him still revolve around excuses as to why we haven't progressed under him and harking back to what he achieved at bigger clubs in differing circumstances kinda says it all.

 

[Gazza]

I think being in all the cups and just 4 points shy of top four is progress. Perhaps we are all disappointed in meeting our realistic expectations with the crazy season everyone is having, it's completely unpredictable and unprecedented.

My point about players availability during covod is the fact that there is less liquid in the market where bigger transfers can be made to perhaps persuade players and clubs to make deals happen.

It's far too easy to call for Jose to leave, he will get his chance to prove himself and until levy says otherwise I think he can change and improve on the current situation.

One game at a time, but every team in the league has suffered some freak results, you only have to look at the teams ahead of us to see this is a very unusual season.

 

[billyiddo]

I think being in all the cups and just 4 points shy of top four is progress. Perhaps we are all disappointed in meeting our realistic expectations with the crazy season everyone is having, it's completely unpredictable and unprecedented.

My point about players availability during covod is the fact that there is less liquid in the market where bigger transfers can be made to perhaps persuade players and clubs to make deals happen.

It's far too easy to call for Jose to leave, he will get his chance to prove himself and until levy says otherwise I think he can change and improve on the current situation.

One game at a time, but every team in the league has suffered some freak results, you only have to look at the teams ahead of us to see this is a very unusual season.

He's going to get whatever chance Levy decides to give him regardless of whether you or i agree or disagree that he's the man to take us forward - until then he has the opportunity to turn it around. If he gets to the end of the season then he will have had more than enough time to change my opinion on things. A good second half to the season showing that he can get the best out of what's available to him twill go a long way to doing that.

if we bumble along scraping through games and then having runs where our lack of attacking intent costs us points then im not likely to

 

[Raziel]

I’m honestly surprised people are still so passionately backing him. It’s easily the worst football since AVB, results have been patchy at best, and he’s not building anything.

But I guess we might win the league cup eh?

Results have in that 18 months pretty much been top 4 level (with Covid, with no pre-seasons, with a walking dead squad inherited, with tons of injuries to Kane, Son, Toby, Lloris, Gio, Bergwijn, Lamela, Lucas, Ndombele in that time)

In February we are still in 4 competitions, 4 points outside of top 4 with a game in hand, with a good GD, Kane already at 20 Goals, Son at 17. Loss the same number of games as Chelsea & Leicester, loss one more than Pool, Loss 4 less than the Scum, only United, City and Pool have loss less.

Context is important, yes we have had a bad run, but so has every single team that is in traditional top group. You want to belittle the league cup? somehow Jol, Redknapp, AVB, Poch didn't manage it, it will be what 13 years? and the cup prior to that was another 9? if Jose does it in his first full season, I'm not sure I'd sneer at it.

What are you referring to when you say build something?
- The club has built the infrastructure
- We have a core of a very good team
- We have European experience
- We have a much higher profile than previously

The next step is winning something, literally any fudging thing, get that monkey off our back so that when a true long term manager comes in he doesn't have to deal with "Spurs hasn't won anything"

Past performance doesn't guarantee future success, but Jose has more trophies in his career than Spurs does in it's history, think about that for just a moment .. maybe, just maybe we give until the end of the season to see if his way that historically worked, will still pay off?

Tell me honestly, if Jose brought home two trophies this season, lets say League and Europa, you think a single person in two years will remember how we played?

 

[billyiddo]

I get the impression from reading the different arguments in favour of backing Mourinho that there is an underlaying belief that he and he alone can bring success (based on his trophy haul elsewhere) and that confuses me.

I think ultimately the trophy talk and tinkle taking on social media of these past few years really has damaged peoples outlook on things - we're now in the stadium and will be bringing ourselves up to a more even level with the teams around us financially in terms of transfer budget and wages - that more than anything is what will bring us trophies, investment in the team AND squad. You don't need to hang your hopes on Mourinho or any other manager as though they are the be all and end all - any good managerial appointment will have the building blocks to succeed here.

 

[Gazza]

He's going to get whatever chance Levy decides to give him regardless of whether you or i agree or disagree that he's the man to take us forward - until then he has the opportunity to turn it around. If he gets to the end of the season then he will have had more than enough time to change my opinion on things. A good second half to the season showing that he can get the best out of what's available to him twill go a long way to doing that.

if we bumble along scraping through games and then having runs where our lack of attacking intent costs us points then im not likely to

If we bumble and scrape our way to the top four and win a trophy or two along the way ... id take it.

 

[billyiddo]

If we bumble and scrape our way to the top four and win a trophy or two along the way ... id take it.

this season? id take that 100% as an outcome and thank him for it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think being in all the cups and just 4 points shy of top four is progress. Perhaps we are all disappointed in meeting our realistic expectations with the crazy season everyone is having, it's completely unpredictable and unprecedented.

My point about players availability during covod is the fact that there is less liquid in the market where bigger transfers can be made to perhaps persuade players and clubs to make deals happen.

It's far too easy to call for Jose to leave, he will get his chance to prove himself and until levy says otherwise I think he can change and improve on the current situation.

One game at a time, but every team in the league has suffered some freak results, you only have to look at the teams ahead of us to see this is a very unusual season.

At this point of the season aren’t we usually still in the FA Cup and CL and actually in the top 4? Or are we now comparing Mourinho to our managers prior to Pochettino as being the ‘norm’?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I get the impression from reading the different arguments in favour of backing Mourinho that there is an underlaying belief that he and he alone can bring success (based on his trophy haul elsewhere) and that confuses me.

I think ultimately the trophy talk and tinkle taking on social media of these past few years really has damaged peoples outlook on things - we're now in the stadium and will be bringing ourselves up to a more even level with the teams around us financially in terms of transfer budget and wages - that more than anything is what will bring us trophies, investment in the team AND squad. You don't need to hang your hopes on Mourinho or any other manager as though they are the be all and end all - any good managerial appointment will have the building blocks to succeed here.

We’re now at the big boys table as you say
It would take a hell of a lot of mismanagement for us to drop out of it £££ wise
Things can and do happen but the stadium being built is a key cog in the money making machine which should allow us to punch some weight on the pitch
Key of course now is what and how Covid has impacted us

 

[Finney Is Back]

We’re now at the big boys table as you say
It would take a hell of a lot of mismanagement for us to drop out of it £££ wise
Things can and do happen but the stadium being built is a key cog in the money making machine which should allow us to punch some weight on the pitch
Key of course now is what and how Covid has impacted us

It actually wouldn’t take that much.... a year or two outside of all European competition or another couple of years outside of the CL would have a huge impact.

Sobering thought.... Everton will have probably pushed us down to 7th highest wage bill this year. Other than the odd anomaly (i.e. stumbling across a great manager like Pochettino) teams tend to finish in their leagues roughly within a position or two of their relative wage bill.

 

[billyiddo]

It actually wouldn’t take that much.... a year or two outside of all European competition or another couple of years outside of the CL would have a huge impact.

Sobering thought.... Everton will have probably pushed us down to 7th highest wage bill this year. Other than the odd anomaly (i.e. stumbling across a great manager like Pochettino) teams tend to finish in their leagues roughly within a position or two of their relative wage bill.

club financials tend to be running a year or two behind and we've only been in the stadium -2 years - id' expect the finances for this year/next year and beyond to show us up where we need to be to be competitive.

 

[Finney Is Back]

club financials tend to be running a year or two behind and we've only been in the stadium -2 years - id' expect the finances for this year/next year and beyond to show us up where we need to be to be competitive.

We saw the revenue from 3/4s PL season and losing in the round of 16 in the CL all played in the new stadium.

Two very big things to consider are:

1. Corporates are much more interested in taking their clients to see CL games.
2. The corporate boxes tend to be sold on 3+ year leases... when those leases come to an end we may well not be in the CL any more (and certainly no longer look like a CL regular as we did going into the new stadium).

One thing we haven’t seen much of yet are the financial gains from the additional non football events. There is perhaps another £20m a year to come from this revenue stream, which might cover some of the likely losses from the corporates. That deal,Levnhasnt yet done for naming rights also looks like it is costing us quite dear...

 

[braineclipse]

It actually wouldn’t take that much.... a year or two outside of all European competition or another couple of years outside of the CL would have a huge impact.

Sobering thought.... Everton will have probably pushed us down to 7th highest wage bill this year. Other than the odd anomaly (i.e. stumbling across a great manager like Pochettino) teams tend to finish in their leagues roughly within a position or two of their relative wage bill.

I definitely agree with the first statement. The added turnover from the stadium won't be enough if we stay out of the CL.

If Everton have done that they've done that by having a much higher wage to turnover ratio than us I'm guessing. Not all that concerned by that. That option is available to us too, but I'm glad we're not going down that road.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It actually wouldn’t take that much.... a year or two outside of all European competition or another couple of years outside of the CL would have a huge impact.

Sobering thought.... Everton will have probably pushed us down to 7th highest wage bill this year. Other than the odd anomaly (i.e. stumbling across a great manager like Pochettino) teams tend to finish in their leagues roughly within a position or two of their relative wage bill.

Tv revenue is so big currently that maintains a level of status quo
And will be more so with the changes in foreign Tv money distribution subject to league placing of course

 

[Gazza]

I get the impression from reading the different arguments in favour of backing Mourinho that there is an underlaying belief that he and he alone can bring success (based on his trophy haul elsewhere) and that confuses me.

I think ultimately the trophy talk and tinkle taking on social media of these past few years really has damaged peoples outlook on things - we're now in the stadium and will be bringing ourselves up to a more even level with the teams around us financially in terms of transfer budget and wages - that more than anything is what will bring us trophies, investment in the team AND squad. You don't need to hang your hopes on Mourinho or any other manager as though they are the be all and end all - any good managerial appointment will have the building blocks to succeed here.

And why not Mourinho to start with

 

[billyiddo]

And why not Mourinho to start with

haha

for all the reasons we have discussed thus far mate - i think his effectiveness as a manager is on the wane and the cups at United masked over some pretty big cracks in his approach/style/whatever you want to call it and i don't think he has shown anything in the time he has been here to suggest he has much left to offer at the top level.

you can say you think he's going to win trophies here because he wins trophies and that's what he does but that logic just doesn't do it for me - i judge managers on what they do here under our circumstances, not what they've done elsewhere.

 

[braineclipse]

I get the impression from reading the different arguments in favour of backing Mourinho that there is an underlaying belief that he and he alone can bring success (based on his trophy haul elsewhere) and that confuses me.

I think ultimately the trophy talk and tinkle taking on social media of these past few years really has damaged peoples outlook on things - we're now in the stadium and will be bringing ourselves up to a more even level with the teams around us financially in terms of transfer budget and wages - that more than anything is what will bring us trophies, investment in the team AND squad. You don't need to hang your hopes on Mourinho or any other manager as though they are the be all and end all - any good managerial appointment will have the building blocks to succeed here.

I definitely don't think it's Mourinho and Mourinho alone. If he fails we get someone else in and I'm assuming Levy will make reasonable decision at least. Many of the names mentioned seem exciting to me, though I don't currently have a favourite.

What I don't understand is at least what I perceive as an opinion that Mourinho will fail and that we might as well just get rid of him now. We definitely regressed in the games prior to the WBA game and if that form continues we'll be in a real downwards spiral that will be difficult to break. For now I'm thinking that Mourinho should be given the chance to turn things around.

 

[parklane1]

Is there a comma missing? Genuine question

Difficult to say mate seeing as some Mod has got out of school early and playing silly gonad*s.

 

[Raziel]

I definitely don't think it's Mourinho and Mourinho alone. If he fails we get someone else in and I'm assuming Levy will make reasonable decision at least. Many of the names mentioned seem exciting to me, though I don't currently have a favourite.

What I don't understand is at least what I perceive as an opinion that Mourinho will fail and that we might as well just get rid of him now. We definitely regressed in the games prior to the WBA game and if that form continues we'll be in a real downwards spiral that will be difficult to break. For now I'm thinking that Mourinho should be given the chance to turn things around.

This exactly.

The club needs top 4 & the club needs trophies for several reasons (it's the goal of the club eventually, it's a validation of the decades of work Levy has been striving to, it helps with attracting/keeping players and also importantly it kills another tired media narrative)

Jose can deliver both of those things this season still, when he is no longer in a position to do so or if this run goes really bad, I trust Levy will make a decision and find an appropriate replacement who will also have an opportunity to go after those same goals.

The question I'd ask the people who want Jose gone is .. if it was any other manager but Jose, in the position we are in now (cup final, in all cups and 4 points off CL place), would anyone really be asking to have them removed?

 

[Gazza]

Results have in that 18 months pretty much been top 4 level (with Covid, with no pre-seasons, with a walking dead squad inherited, with tons of injuries to Kane, Son, Toby, Lloris, Gio, Bergwijn, Lamela, Lucas, Ndombele in that time)

In February we are still in 4 competitions, 4 points outside of top 4 with a game in hand, with a good GD, Kane already at 20 Goals, Son at 17. Loss the same number of games as Chelsea & Leicester, loss one more than Pool, Loss 4 less than the Scum, only United, City and Pool have loss less.

Context is important, yes we have had a bad run, but so has every single team that is in traditional top group. You want to belittle the league cup? somehow Jol, Redknapp, AVB, Poch didn't manage it, it will be what 13 years? and the cup prior to that was another 9? if Jose does it in his first full season, I'm not sure I'd sneer at it.

What are you referring to when you say build something?
- The club has built the infrastructure
- We have a core of a very good team
- We have European experience
- We have a much higher profile than previously

The next step is winning something, non-figuratively any fudging thing, get that monkey off our back so that when a true long term manager comes in he doesn't have to deal with "Spurs hasn't won anything"

Past performance doesn't guarantee future success, but Jose has more trophies in his career than Spurs does in it's history, think about that for just a moment .. maybe, just maybe we give until the end of the season to see if his way that historically worked, will still pay off?

Tell me honestly, if Jose brought home two trophies this season, lets say League and Europa, you think a single person in two years will remember how we played?

Lock the thread and give this man a knighthood for getting past all the trolls in one fell swoop.