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OMT *** Spurs vs Bin Dippers ***

billyiddo said:
You don't get to oversee that sort of churn unless you show progression.

Klopp did.
Mourinho hasn't.

The idea we let him mould this team despite not doing well is fudging ludicrous
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Klopp IMO didnt show progression in his first season (they finished 8th vs 6th the previous season). He basically did a Poch but had the money to get it over the line. It was in his 4th season he equalled what Rogers did in his second
And Pep spent a fortune and they were one place better than they were he joined I believe. It wasn’t progression with the investment they made. It was the season after though they progressed properly
And don’t think for one second I’m saying that will happen here
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Klopp IMO didnt show progression in his first season (they finished 8th vs 6th the previous season). He basically did a Poch but had the money to get it over the line. It was in his 4th season he equalled what Rogers did in his second
And Pep spent a fortune and they were one place better than they were he joined I believe. It wasn’t progression with the investment they made. It was the season after though they progressed properly
And don’t think for one second I’m saying that will happen here
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You could see a clear and defined style of play implemented.

Asides from our ultra defensive low block against top teams i see no recognisable style of play from this team.

Honestly what have you seen that makes you want to invest in this managers vision?
 
billyiddo said:
You could see a clear and defined style of play implemented.

Asides from our ultra defensive low block against top teams i see no recognisable style of play from this team.

Honestly what have you seen that makes you want to invest in this managers vision?
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Certainly not his charming personality.
 
billyiddo said:
You could see a clear and defined style of play implemented.

Asides from our ultra defensive low block against top teams i see no recognisable style of play from this team.

Honestly what have you seen that makes you want to invest in this managers vision?
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His trophy cabinet
He even won those trophies this way at united and Chelsea only 3 and 5 years ago I believe
I can’t say anymore than that TBH as I’m of trying to defend him
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Klopp IMO didnt show progression in his first season (they finished 8th vs 6th the previous season). He basically did a Poch but had the money to get it over the line. It was in his 4th season he equalled what Rogers did in his second
And Pep spent a fortune and they were one place better than they were he joined I believe. It wasn’t progression with the investment they made. It was the season after though they progressed properly
And don’t think for one second I’m saying that will happen here
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Think that's slightly unfair on Klopp. The season he finished 8th, he came in in October when they were struggling under Rogers. The following year, his first full season, he got top 4 and final of the Europa IIRC. Jose got his free pass last season the same as Klopp when he finished 8th.

Rogers 2nd place was an outlier too. That was the only season in 5-6 where they got top 4 so I wouldn't judge Klopp against that achievement.

If Jose doesn't get top 4, or win the Europa, he's been an unqualified failure this season. The League Cup, if we win it, won't mask that.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think that's slightly unfair on Klopp. The season he finished 8th, he came in in October when they were struggling under Rogers. The following year, his first full season, he got top 4 and final of the Europa IIRC. Jose got his free pass last season the same as Klopp when he finished 8th.

Rogers 2nd place was an outlier too. That was the only season in 5-6 where they got top 4 so I wouldn't judge Klopp against that achievement.

If Jose doesn't get top 4, or win the Europa, he's been an unqualified failure this season. The League Cup, if we win it, won't mask that.
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Rogers got them top 2 and closer to the title than anyone in 1 season. That’s pretty damn good and closer than we ever got
Klopp in his first season finished lower than Jose did here for us last season and joined around the same time ish comparably
I will say though if we don’t get a trophy and Europe this season then it’s a failure as there is no progression
 
billyiddo said:
Sounds awful like blind hope tbh but appreciate the honesty
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Course it’s hope.
What else can it be?
I don’t expect us to win every game.,. And I’ll be honest when we were top the stress of watching us wasn’t healthy. I’m a reasonably fit fat guy (low BP and heart rate), bu5 every game that period I felt ill
I still think he will mirror that season at united and leave here having won a couple of trophies. I’ll take that as the record books don’t say “won by being boring”
And I really really didn’t want Jose here . I didn’t want Poch sacked and said that constantly at the time . I get why he was sacked but what frustrates me is the players that let him down are still here in most cases yet he isn’t
 
Baleforce said:
It's worrying, because that happened under Poch too, you could pretty much pinpoint the moment in that season where the squad went, nah fudge it.

If they are not trying anymore it's only a matter of time before Jose goes, and between now and then we are going to lose a lot of games.
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I don’t think he will let them tail off the worm rate. We will see on that front but I do think he isn’t the mate that Poch was to the players and also we now have some leaders in the team who will kick off (even if it’s Aurier)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Course it’s hope.
What else can it be?
I don’t expect us to win every game.,. And I’ll be honest when we were top the stress of watching us wasn’t healthy. I’m a reasonably fit fat guy (low BP and heart rate), bu5 every game that period I felt ill
I still think he will mirror that season at united and leave here having won a couple of trophies. I’ll take that as the record books don’t say “won by being boring”
And I really really didn’t want Jose here . I didn’t want Poch sacked and said that constantly at the time . I get why he was sacked but what frustrates me is the players that let him down are still here in most cases yet he isn’t
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That doesn't sound like a winning mentality to me...

Sadly I know what you mean. I was bricking myself in November. Imagine if we were top in April or May. I'd have to invest in a defibrillator.

I've had 35 years longing for us to win the league but not sure I could really handle it.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Course it’s hope.
What else can it be?
I don’t expect us to win every game.,. And I’ll be honest when we were top the stress of watching us wasn’t healthy. I’m a reasonably fit fat guy (low BP and heart rate), bu5 every game that period I felt ill
I still think he will mirror that season at united and leave here having won a couple of trophies. I’ll take that as the record books don’t say “won by being boring”
And I really really didn’t want Jose here . I didn’t want Poch sacked and said that constantly at the time . I get why he was sacked but what frustrates me is the players that let him down are still here in most cases yet he isn’t
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After this amount of time there should be a hell of a lot more than just hope in the managers corner mate

Harking back to Poch does no one any favours, it kills me daily that we sacked him for this clam, it really does but that has no baring on what's best for the club moving forward, Mourinho is yesterdays man - hasn't got a clue and we're lucky he's got Kane and Son bailing out his tactics because we could be a lot worse off otherwise.
 
DeanoAustin said:
That doesn't sound like a winning meteorology to me...

Sadly I know what you mean. I was bricking myself in November. Imagine if we were top in April or May. I'd have to invest in a defibrillator.

I've had 35 years longing for us to win the league but not sure I could really handle it.
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I’m 44 and I think most would agree I’m a positive guy
I pd have left the county by hook or by crook to avoid those games in April and may if we were still there
 
billyiddo said:
After this amount of time there should be a hell of a lot more than just hope in the managers corner mate

Harking back to Poch does no one any favours, it kills me daily that we sacked him for this clam, it really does but that has no baring on what's best for the club moving forward, Mourinho is yesterdays man - hasn't got a clue and we're lucky he's got Kane and Son bailing out his tactics because we could be a lot worse off otherwise.
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Maybe it’s Jose’s way of trying to compensate for how brick the defence is
I just read some comments on teletext alluding it that basically
Any manager coming in would look at that defence and rip it up
Maybe it’s as simple as replacing dier
I don’t know TBH and I’m just rambling now

it’s interesting that Ancelotti is playing the same always at Everton as we are
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maybe it’s Jose’s way of trying to compensate for how brick the defence is
I just read some comments on teletext alluding it that basically
Any manager coming in would look at that defence and rip it up
Maybe it’s as simple as replacing dier
I don’t know TBH and I’m just rambling now

it’s interesting that Ancelotti is playing the same always at Everton as we are
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I watched them yesterday and they were very poor and very reminiscent of us.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
But when people compare us to pool they forget how long and how many players it’s took to get there
Same with city, remember their first season under pep?
I’m not saying we have progress but I’m saying things do take time
Issue is we do t have time in the game anymore
I think we would be in a healthier state if we could get rid of the dead wood (whoever Jose’s sees as that), but the issue is he loves to keep players just in case
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How many more excuses are we going to find?
Things DO take time. At the risk of laboring a point ( :) ) we had done that hard work between 2015 and 2019. We had the system and template.We shat it and looked to an "instant winner."
In all honesty, how much time does an instant winner get? It's a moot point, because obviously he's staying as we cannot afford to even if we wanted to.
Here's the blunt truth. In three BIG league games since he arrived, you know, ones where he's had a chance to get back into CL places AND put distance between us and those below us.
He's lost them all.
 
Just watched the game and sort of wish I hadn't, fast forwarded through much of the second half.
I really despise the scummy Scousers and it galls me that they've got the indian sign over us at the moment.
How typical that, in the match we need them to turn up, Kane gets crocked, Son doesn't show and Reguilon wasn't even available.
 
DeanoAustin said:
The only thing holding me back is @Bedfordspurs point about Pep and Klopp needing time that Jose probably hasn’t had yet. I want to argue against it but it’s a good point no matter how much I don’t like it.

I’m fuming tonight so can’t draw any conclusion on it right now.
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It's a great point, absolutely, unless you weigh up why we sacked the last bloke and brought this bloke in!!!!!! In which case it weakens very quickly IMO (no disrespect to Bedford, the game's about opinions and I love the fact we can share them)...
 
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