Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[Naughton16]

He'll need patience from chairman, players, fans....sadly not something found in abundance at WHL. Implementing a new system rarely yields instant results.

 

[rosenthal]

Villas-Boas has already asked for assistants Jose Mario Rocha and Daniel Sousato, who worked under him at Chelsea last season, to join him at the club.

Both have been with AVB at the three clubs he's been in charge at.
Jose Mario Rocha is a more experienced coach that has spent many years in Porto's youth set up. Fitness coach.
Daniel Sousa is even younger than AVB, in his late 20s. Main task is as opposition scout, although he's qualified to coach as well.

 

[ringo]

If AVB is appointed I don't think it will be long before the media stick the knife in and and keep on sticking it in. There won't be much if any honeymoon period. He is the perfect target. His failure at Chelsea will be repeated over and over. There will be crticism from anonymous sources. He will continually be compared to Harry. THe only way AVB is going to come out of this OK is by improving on Harry's record. Which won't be easy.

He is brave man (or just doesn't realise what he is letting himself in for) if he takes the job. Look what happened to the last European star manager we hired. Ramos' career has never been the same since - he's currently plying his trade at Dnipro Dnipropetrovs.

 

[chicken_badge]

Levy is a good and clever chairman and what he wants is Spurs on an upward journey. Jol established us as a solid top 5 club. But there wasn't enough evidence that he could break into the top 4 of the division. Redknapp took us a bit further, and now we look more established at that level. But again, is there any evidence we could go beyond this? No; we had it on a plate this season and blew it. Plus Redknapp just wasn't interested in any of the cups.

In short, Redknapp's ambition was questionable..... did he really believe we could sustain a serious title challenge this season back in January? Because I think a different boss might have done, and that could have made a difference. Scraping into the top 4 and a decent cup run if you get a decent draw, that's Harry's limit. And let's be honest, after the mediocrity of the last 18 years, we would have that any day.

I think if AVB finished 6th in his first year, Levy might accept it if there were clear signs the club were still going places. You have to put our final position in it's context..... This year we had City and United in a class of their own, little between us and Arsenal, Saudi Sportswashing Machine getting lucky with injuries, a poor Chelsea season and a terrible Liverpool one. Next year, Manchester will be just as strong, Arsenal don't look a huge amount better or worse, Chelsea potentially much stronger. Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool need a lot of work to push for top 4, but it's quite possible that both could be in the race again. So if that were to happen 6th with all those teams performing well would be a success.

 

[jimmyb]

If AVB is appointed I don't think it will be long before the media stick the knife in and and keep on sticking it in. There won't be much if any honeymoon period. He is the perfect target. His failure at Chelsea will be repeated over and over. There will be crticism from anonymous sources. He will continually be compared to Harry. THe only way AVB is going to come out of this OK is by improving on Harry's record. Which won't be easy.

He is brave man (or just doesn't realise what he is letting himself in for) if he takes the job. Look what happened to the last European star manager we hired. Ramos' career has never been the same since - he's currently plying his trade at Dnipro Dnipropetrovs.

If AVB has, as claimed, learned the lessons of his chastening Chelsea experience, I see no reason why he can't win the media round. Of course, there will always be some of Harry's chums in the media who will chip away at any backward step, any chink of weakness, any small failure. But there are enough decent and good football hacks around, who hold no particular brief for Harry, who will be more objective.

And this time around, AVB should at least have a chairman who will not hang him out to dry within his first few months at the club. Nor will he have a dressing room full of players who are resistant to his ideas.

 

[jimmyb]

Both have been with AVB at the three clubs he's been in charge at.
Jose Mario Rocha is a more experienced coach that has spent many years in Porto's youth set up. Fitness coach.
Daniel Sousa is even younger than AVB, in his late 20s. Main task is as opposition scout, although he's qualified to coach as well.

Thanks for the info.

Do you know whether they both speak good English?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

we should have finished 3rd this season - 3 of the teams which are 'above' us had poor season by their standards - which in turn means that our targets naturally are changed as a result. that 6th now becomes 3rd

if the same situation arises in the next season (well the season after as this coming season the manager coming in should be afforded time to acclimatize) where 3 teams who are higher than us in the pecking order have bad seasons then i will be wanting us to over take them - should the teams above us play to their level/standard then yes, 6th is an acceptable finish

judging your performance based solely on a league position, not taking in to account the opposition and what standard they are performing to will not give you an accurate indication of how well you did


finishing 6th with everyone above us playing well - decent season
finishing 6th when those above us under perform - bad season

that's my take on it anyway

Agree with everything you've said - Levy isn't going to sack a manager outright for failure to finish in the top 4. As long as we are in the conversation that's all we can realistically aim for. Levy knows that.

I also think Levy has been very good in not writing AVB off because of the Chelsea period, but also not immediately giving him the go ahead to do as he pleased here either. As jimmyb says, we could be getting an even better manager than the Porto AVB, because he's had so many 'obvious' mistakes to learn from in such a short space of time. It's like a crash course on handling egos and implementing change and it might have took some managers years to get that same experience. I don't think he has a people skills problem, I think the situation was seriously combustible and no-one came out of it covered in glory. But I'm sure that won't happen again.

I don't think we need to worry too much about the media either. The macarons that are obviously Harry's mates that try to paint Levy as the next Venkys most fans can smell a mile off and know exactly how much credence to give to those kinds of stories. Other than that, if AVB gets results, and has us up there again, what are the media gonna say? We shouldn't have sacked Harry to bring in a younger coach that has continued the good work? If he does go through a sticky run, I would think most fans are clever enough to know that most clubs go through bad form, and that even under Harry it happened. I think as long as we look like we are playing well, creating chances and working as a team, fans will see that. Last season during our bad form we looked like we couldn't do anything against mid-table teams and didn't have a hope of winning, so that will be different.

Plus, AVB actually gives a lot to the media. I don't think he's overly tactical in terms of what he gives the players, but he is willing to go into serious detail when answering questions. When one manager might say 'our strikers couldn't get on the ball' for example, AVB will often go 3 or 4 steps back from that, deliver even more detail and give that proper explanation. He has no problem answering every question in as much detail as possible, and as long as he doesn't say anything like 'you the media want us to fail', he should be fine. He just needs to be sincere, good humoured, friendly and gracious. By all accounts, before Chelsea, he was all of those things. I would absolutely love to know why it suddenly changed there - maybe he was acting on orders from Roman - but I really don't think he'll act that way with us. Firstly because I don't believe it's the 'real' him. And secondly because as I said, he's had that crash course now, if he fails to learn from that experience then he can expect to be sacked and justifiably so.

 

[metalgear]

if its AVB, it isn't different from any manager.
we've done what was thought impossible some years before - to break the monopoly of the then sky top-4.

while jol and redknapp seemed to have good relations with the press, it was really because the press could get great soundbites out of them that would make great stories reports. it was a symbiotic relationship. but when the going gets tough - speculation of players turning against Jol, Harry's court case and being wooed by the FA - the press wasn't exactly helping our cause. Why would they? Its their jobs to sell papers/clicks...

...and being an on-the-move club, we become a natural target for reporters/journalists. they're able to make great stories by hyping-out whenever there's positive news (spurs to sign superstar) or negative news (modric to CL club). and AVB won't be immune to this.

with respect to his relationship with Levy... my view is that Levy is his own man and while his managerial choices haven't really been consistently successful, they've always been risky - DOF, non-English speaking managers, old-fashioned englishman - but always with the intention to gamble for the club's next level in progress. like it or not, we are 4th now with steady progress over the years, the gambles and the sacrfices have all worked out - so far.

And now its AVB for redknapp, eyeing the next trajectory. Its risky for both parties, but we've seen Levy's clinical hand when things don't work out. So I guess the thing its that looking at history, we should be saying "trust levy". looking back it was truly a roller-coaster ride for the fans but you could argue all that activity and intensity was necessary to become a force strong enough to break into the top-4. but what is clear is that its not always "looking up" but more of a 3-steps-forwards-2-steps back improvement over time.

what's interesting for me is that through all the volatile years in the club, levy did something quite impossible for a non-top-four no-marquee-investments club - he grew the fanbase and actually hardened the core of the most faithful. that to me is good evidence that at the end of it all Levy is a great chairman, at least for these times.

As for AVB - he will be taking on a big big challenge. But for Levy he's taking a helluva big gamble too. I''m guessing that the new direction is centered around the youth academy and a to be developed "spurs way to play" that will have positive effects on and off the pitch. If so, AVB is probably the most suitable candidate for this role, being young and a known innovator of the game.

If we go through a bad patch, I won't be surprised to see Levy take evasive action. We've been there before. So i trust Levy, whoever the choice of manager is.

 

[ArcspacE]

Very excited for AVB if the rumours are true - he was always my first and foremost preference amongst the sea of mediocre names which were thrown around in the papers, etc.

The media comments further up by Ringo are quite telling though - let's hope he gets off to a good start else the hounds would be out for blood much like during his Chelsea days. Oh - and Arry's pals in the rags would always seeks to undermine him and compare meaningless a-contextual statistics - that's a given surely

 

[parklane1]

I am happy if it is going to be AVB, it will be interesting to see what his long term plans for the club are. There is no doubt that Redknapp did a good job and should be thanked for that, the next step is the crucial one and we needed a manager with a long term outlook and from what i have heard he is the man for that.

We have brocken into the top four and now we have to build on that, we have a ambitious chaiman and now a manager who is the same.

 

[milo]

Levy is a good and clever chairman and what he wants is Spurs on an upward journey. Jol established us as a solid top 5 club. But there wasn't enough evidence that he could break into the top 4 of the division. Redknapp took us a bit further, and now we look more established at that level. But again, is there any evidence we could go beyond this? No; we had it on a plate this season and blew it. Plus Redknapp just wasn't interested in any of the cups.

In short, Redknapp's ambition was questionable..... did he really believe we could sustain a serious title challenge this season back in January? Because I think a different boss might have done, and that could have made a difference. Scraping into the top 4 and a decent cup run if you get a decent draw, that's Harry's limit. And let's be honest, after the mediocrity of the last 18 years, we would have that any day.

I think if AVB finished 6th in his first year, Levy might accept it if there were clear signs the club were still going places. You have to put our final position in it's context..... This year we had City and United in a class of their own, little between us and Arsenal, Saudi Sportswashing Machine getting lucky with injuries, a poor Chelsea season and a terrible Liverpool one. Next year, Manchester will be just as strong, Arsenal don't look a huge amount better or worse, Chelsea potentially much stronger. Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool need a lot of work to push for top 4, but it's quite possible that both could be in the race again. So if that were to happen 6th with all those teams performing well would be a success.

If we were good enough to compete for the title last season (i don't believe that we had a squad equipped to do it but...) then we should be competing for it again this season and sixth would be unacceptable.

 

[ArcspacE]

If we were good enough to compete for the title last season (i don't believe that we had a squad equipped to do it but...) then we should be competing for it again this season and sixth would be unacceptable.

All depending on who we have in the 25-man squad come 1st September

 

[MastodonMUSING]

AVB would bring exactly what Redknapp lacked to the club - a plan B. Without a plan B you are going to ultimately fail and that is what happened under HR. The importance of being able to change your style to counter your opposition and change during games are both vital. However, AVB may not be the players' best friend - but a manager is not supposed to be one IMO. Redknapp only took us so far - I believe AVB will take us that little bit further...

 

[milo]

AVB would bring exactly what Redknapp lacked to the club - a plan B. Without a plan B you are going to ultimately fail and that is what happened under HR. The importance of being able to change your style to counter your opposition and change during games are both vital. However, AVB may not be the players' best friend - but a manager is not supposed to be one IMO. Redknapp only took us so far - I believe AVB will take us that little bit further...

I didn't see much evidence of a plan b at Chelsea.

I am worried that people are already building up AVB into something that he cannot possibly match. He will get team selections wrong, he will make the wrong substitutions at the wrong time, he will make baffling tactical choices, he will sign players that we don't rate or think that we don't need. All managers do.

 

[mason]

I didn't see much evidence of a plan b at Chelsea.

I am worried that people are already building up AVB into something that he cannot possibly match. He will get team selections wrong, he will make the wrong substitutions at the wrong time, he will make baffling tactical choices, he will sign players that we don't rate or think that we don't need. All managers do.

Exactly.

AVB has a strategy (probably a very good one) but it is far from what Harry was doing. So if we are to go with AVB then we need to prepare for a transition period. Which could well be a whole season, if that's not something that is acceptable (like at Chelsea) then I feel AVB is not the right man.

Every single candidate we have been linked with comes with some element of risk and their cons.

 

[edgey-the-yid]

I didn't see much evidence of a plan b at Chelsea.

I am worried that people are already building up AVB into something that he cannot possibly match. He will get team selections wrong, he will make the wrong substitutions at the wrong time, he will make baffling tactical choices, he will sign players that we don't rate or think that we don't need. All managers do.

But at the end of the day its all bout getting behind him... If we think hes gonna surpass HR in one season then we're fools! Gonna take time and money

 

[chancer]

I didn't see much evidence of a plan b at Chelsea.

I am worried that people are already building up AVB into something that he cannot possibly match. He will get team selections wrong, he will make the wrong substitutions at the wrong time, he will make baffling tactical choices, he will sign players that we don't rate or think that we don't need. All managers do.

Anyone who saw AVB's final league game for Chelsea against WBA will agree with you. Rarely have I ever seen a team so clueless, so lacking in togetherness and so utterly lacking a Plan B. Or a Plan A for that matter. It was a shambles and AVB looked like a lost child on the sideline. Was sacked a day or two later iirc.

I'm supportive of the appointment - now that my man Marty seems to be out of the picture - in the name of taking a punt on youth and the possibility he's learnt his lessons. But anyone thinking Harry made mistakes that other coaches don't is deluded. Indeed, during match threads on GG during Harry's time you'd have 5 different people saying he was making 5 different mistakes and each one suggesting 5 better formations or substitutions. All these 5 though agreed that "Harry's got it wrong", which papered over the fact they'd all have done different things themselves! AVB, and any manager, will be the same from time to time.

 

[1882]

Levy (and many fans) main problem with Harry was ALWAYS longevity, and his own personal ambition... DESPITE what Harry says out the car windaaa, he ALWAYS wanted - and no doubt assumed - he was a shoe-in for England at SOME point...

...the fact he was overlooked isn't our problem, it's most definitely his... but it doesn't change the fact that in his mind, he wasn't going to be at Spurs for the long-run, so investing time in the Youth set-up (only for the inevitable next manager to reap the benefits from) was NEVER going to be in Harry's interests... he was very much for the 'now' (hence some of the signings) and to be perfectly fair, the 'now' has been pretty good, let's not kid ourselves.

But there's no use us being a one-season wonder every 10 years or so, we need to build from the foundations up... hence the new training facilities, and hopefully, the new ground.
Levy knows this, and has made provisions for this... Harry didn't, and probably couldn't care one jot WHERE or how GOOD the new training ground was, as long as the tea-lady made a 'triffic brew!

Levy is restructuring the club from top to bottom, to focus on the FUTURE... and good job too. We've been in 'transition' for too fudging long, after a succession of 'Me-Me-Me' managers (Jol aside) who were never going to weave themselves into the fabric of the Club... AVB just might be someone that can!

 

[ArcspacE]

Anyone who saw AVB's final league game for Chelsea against WBA will agree with you. Rarely have I ever seen a team so clueless, so lacking in togetherness and so utterly lacking a Plan B. Or a Plan A for that matter. It was a shambles and AVB looked like a lost child on the sideline. Was sacked a day or two later iirc.

Sounds like Martinez' first 32 games every season.

 

[Shropshire Yid]

Not sure if people have seen this, a scouting report from AVB Chelsea days, interesting detail and some insight!!