Christian Eriksen

[thfcsteff]

A full pre-season when you have Levy as chairman making offers for players that consioffering a close to best before date packet of crisps and £1 a week over 6 years, increasing that by 50p a day for the players that the manager wants?

Exactly.
The manager didn’t even know who was staying at the club into Sept.
Lo Celso and Sess arrive at the very very end of our window?
Ideal pre-season? Not so much.

 

[Finney Is Back]

No twisting of anything.

Trouble is, as the table in the link below shows, as poor as he's been, he's still our best option creatively. There's several players only performing at about 50% of their level in previous seasons, unfortunately. There's a good chance Poch is basing his decisions on the same sort of feedback.

https://understat.com/team/Tottenham/2019

Is what I responded to. And my suggestion was simply that there are more ways to play attacking football than to rely on a single player/set up.

If we set up in a way that requires a player like Eriksen, then yes the above quote would be about right.

If we set up in a way that DOESNT require a player like Eriksen, then the above quote is, IMO - missing the bigger picture.

I realise this board is all about the arguments right now - but is this really something worth such back and forth over?

I don't think we are set up in a way that requires a single player be the creativity for the team. I don't think we have ever set up that way. One could argue that our team these days only ever really contains one player who isn't creative (one of Sissoko or Wanyama or Dier).

All of: Son, NDombele, Dele, Lo Celso, Moura, Lamela, Sessegnon, Kane, some (although not I) would even say Winks, our full backs and even Jan and Toby would be considered creative players. I don't think we set up in a way that has a specific player to provide all of our creativity - I would expect Eriksen to be playing in a free role with no defensive responsibility if this were the case.

There was a real rush to buy Eriksen and Ozil this summer wasn't there?

Games moving away from those types of playmakers - cant think of many players of that ilk at top clubs and there certainly aren't many knocking down our door for Eriksen...

I think they are very different players. Ozil is a luxury player whereas Eriksen has always worked hard for the team (until recently). I just think that Eriksen's heart isn't really in it at Spurs now and it is hard to give your all when your heart is no longer in it.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don't think we are set up in a way that requires a single player be the creativity for the team. I don't think we have ever set up that way. One could argue that our team these days only ever really contains one player who isn't creative (one of Sissoko or Wanyama or Dier).

All of: Son, NDombele, Dele, Lo Celso, Moura, Lamela, Sessegnon, Kane, some (although not I) would even say Winks, our full backs and even Jan and Toby would be considered creative players. I don't think we set up in a way that has a specific player to provide all of our creativity - I would expect Eriksen to be playing in a free role with no defensive responsibility if this were the case.

And yet the continuing theme is that we have to play Eriksen else we have no attack.

Or that other players cant play in his position.

Neither are things I believe. I would agree very much with your post.

My point is, even if it were true of Eriksen, we could compensate and be very effective without him.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Id like some of that hope. I dont share it right now.

RSB is the only real bright spot I see to inspire some belief things are turning - and as you point out it wasnt exactly a competitive game.

Otherwise the low point of Brighton seems to be continuing, I cant say Im seeing a drastic improvement since.

Everton was, for me, the players just going through the motions.

I think tomorrow is a test. Not so much RSB directly (though I understand they are better at home), but rather the occasion, the need for points, the atmosphere - and the need for a reaction to the Everton disappointment.

Then I think Sheffield is actually quite scary. A hard working, well drilled, effective team - and a manager that wont settle for any slip - up against us? Unless we really raise our game I think they could take a big scalp at the weekend.

I disagree with some of the above. We were woeful against Brighton. Incredibly bad. The worst performance under Poch by a considerable margin IMO. We had nothing at all until the game was effectively over and Brighton eased off the pace (it was a bit like our game against Palace in reverse).

I was really worried for Liverpool game and yet I thought we were quite resilient in that game and probably actually let down in the end by a lack of ambition more than anything else. Against Everton I also thought we were also quite resilient (which is a big improvement on Brighton). I didn't notice any lack of effort, I think we clearly lack a bit of confidence and cohesion right now and we definitely lacked a focal point up front, but despite Everton's poor position in the table their home form is actually rather good.

Tomorrow is indeed a test. RSB are FAR better at home and have given a fair few good teams a bloody nose there. Let's see what sort of team we have available and what sort of performance they give.

I agree that Sheff Utd will also be a test of where we are. They are very well organised defensively and counter attack well.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And yet the continuing theme is that we have to play Eriksen else we have no attack.

Or that other players cant play in his position.

Neither are things I believe. I would agree very much with your post.

My point is, even if it were true of Eriksen, we could compensate and be very effective without him.

We don't and I agree with you. Though I do think the manager might've been a little hamstrung with injuries and players coming back from injuries thus far. It was a shame that Lamela got injured again as it would've been interesting to see whether Poch picked him ahead of Eriksen for the last couple of games.

As I said further back we're now starting to get the point where we have players coming back from injury and that should allow Poch to start playing a starting line up of players that he wants at the club next season and the latter half of this one.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I disagree with some of the above. We were woeful against Brighton. Incredibly bad. The worst performance under Poch by a considerable margin IMO. We had nothing at all until the game was effectively over and Brighton eased off the pace (it was a bit like our game against Palace in reverse).

I was really worried for Liverpool game and yet I thought we were quite resilient in that game and probably actually let down in the end by a lack of ambition more than anything else. Against Everton I also thought we were also quite resilient (which is a big improvement on Brighton). I didn't notice any lack of effort, I think we clearly lack a bit of confidence and cohesion right now and we definitely lacked a focal point up front, but despite Everton's poor position in the table their home form is actually rather good.

Tomorrow is indeed a test. RSB are FAR better at home and have given a fair few good teams a bloody nose there. Let's see what sort of team we have available and what sort of performance they give.

I agree that Sheff Utd will also be a test of where we are. They are very well organised defensively and counter attack well.

We defended well against Liverpool, thats fair. We set up badly though, and I wouldnt say we played well. I think Liverpool were always going to win - even when we were 1-0 up.

Everton, the basic shape was there, though the selection was still iffy. Not to try and reignite the whole diamond/4231 stuff, but the shape suits the players much better. They all know their jobs, and can actually function as some semblence of a team within it. For me though it wasnt a lack of confidence, it was a lack of everything. We were going through the motions, and I saw nothing to inspire belief we were about to pick up form. After that game I was just more worried about the next fixtures...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We don't and I agree with you. Though I do think the manager might've been a little hamstrung with injuries and players coming back from injuries thus far. It was a shame that Lamela got injured again as it would've been interesting to see whether Poch picked him ahead of Eriksen for the last couple of games.

As I said further back we're now starting to get the point where we have players coming back from injury and that should allow Poch to start playing a starting line up of players that he wants at the club next season and the latter half of this one.

Would you not say Lo Celso deserves more time on the pitch at this point? I can think of no reason for why Eriksen continues to play with this lad ready to come in. Even if its the case of Lo Celso or Eriksen starting and then a sub much earlier in the game to get minutes into him.

Eriksen has been playing with both Alli and Lamela on the bench. Toby playing with Sanchez on the bench. Rose/Davies.

You have a point RE injuries, to a point, but even so Poch has been sitting players out in favour of those we shouldnt be playing.

People talk of necessary transition, IMHO half of it is on the bench - not waiting in the Jan window!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Would you not say Lo Celso deserves more time on the pitch at this point? I can think of no reason for why Eriksen continues to play with this lad ready to come in. Even if its the case of Lo Celso or Eriksen starting and then a sub much earlier in the game to get minutes into him.

Eriksen has been playing with both Alli and Lamela on the bench. Toby playing with Sanchez on the bench. Rose/Davies.

You have a point RE injuries, to a point, but even so Poch has been sitting players out in favour of those we shouldnt be playing.

People talk of necessary transition, IMHO half of it is on the bench - not waiting in the Jan window!

Yes I think Lo Celso should've played more. I don't mind Poch being a bit cautious with him though after that injury. I would rather he plays a big part than breaks down from too many minutes too quickly.

 

[parklane1]

Yes I think Lo Celso should've played more. I don't mind Poch being a bit cautious with him though after that injury. I would rather he plays a big part than breaks down from too many minutes too quickly.

I think that is probably the reason why we have not seen more of him to be honest, we as fans have no real idea how fit/unfit players are and we have to trust the medical staff who are more informed then us.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think that is probably the reason why we have not seen more of him to be honest, we as fans have no real idea how fit/unfit players are and we have to trust the medical staff who are more informed then us.

That is true. The problem now though is that we are also reliant on the Argentinian national team medical staff to treat him with the same caution.

 

[parklane1]

That is true. The problem now though is that we are also reliant on the Argentinian national team medical staff to treat him with the same caution.

And that is a problem like it is with all our players who go to international duty. Sometimes i wish Poch would do what Fergie did on many occasions and pulled our players out of squads (especially those who have been injured) we only have to look at the problems we have had with Alli, Dier after playing for their Country.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that is probably the reason why we have not seen more of him to be honest, we as fans have no real idea how fit/unfit players are and we have to trust the medical staff who are more informed then us.

I think there’s also a very real adaptation period. Lo Celso is still learning when and where his tricks and flicks work in the Prem. Even Tanguy is still learning; 5 mins before he was subbed on Sunday, he turned and carried the ball into three players, one of which had read his action, and gave away the ball in a dangerous central position which we managed to escape. I don’t blame him more than recognise he is still learning when and where; against Bayern, leathering it upfield in the 44th min sees us go in 1-1 at HT. These players need time IMO...

 

[parklane1]

I think there’s also a very real adaptation period. Lo Celso is still learning when and where his tricks and flicks work in the Prem. Even Tanguy is still learning; 5 mins before he was subbed on Sunday, he turned and carried the ball into three players, one of which had read his action, and gave away the ball in a dangerous central position which we managed to escape. I don’t blame him more than recognise he is still learning when and where; against Bayern, leathering it upfield in the 44th min sees us go in 1-1 at HT. These players need time IMO...

It always amazes me that there are still fans who expect players who come here from abroad to fit right in, and when they do not get on their backs. Madness.

 

[Robspur12]

We don't and I agree with you. Though I do think the manager might've been a little hamstrung with injuries and players coming back from injuries thus far. It was a shame that Lamela got injured again as it would've been interesting to see whether Poch picked him ahead of Eriksen for the last couple of games.

As I said further back we're now starting to get the point where we have players coming back from injury and that should allow Poch to start playing a starting line up of players that he wants at the club next season and the latter half of this one.

Eriksen is more important than you give him credit for. Vertonghen and Alderweireld create very differently to our forwards. Certainly through Toby we move the ball directly from back to front.

What Eriksen does is help create the triangles between the front four. He moves the ball quickly between them and is probably the most unselfish. In other words he knits the attack together. I don't see that happening so readily without Eriksen which is why we are struggling. And it certainly needs more than the "small" tweak as suggested on here.

The only player who moved the ball as quickly and progressively as Eriksen is Ndombele from what I have seen, (although Kane certainly has it in his locker). Lamela is not on the same level as peak Eriksen in terms of knitting the attack together.

 

[MKSpur]

Eriksen is more important than you give him credit for. Vertonghen and Alderweireld create very differently to our forwards. Certainly through Toby we move the ball directly from back to front.

What Eriksen does is help create the triangles between the front four. He moves the ball quickly between them and is probably the most unselfish. In other words he knits the attack together. I don't see that happening so readily without Eriksen which is why we are struggling. And it certainly needs more than the "small" tweak as suggested on here.

The only player who moved the ball as quickly and progressively as Eriksen is Ndombele from what I have seen. Lamela is not on the same level as peak Eriksen in terms of knitting the attack together.

These observations about Eriksen do not apply when I’ve seen him play this season.
He may be being asked to play deeper and less often but he’s struggling to complete basic passes and his pressing / tackling is even ineffective. he was the player the others looked to for answers in a tight game but Villa was the last time I saw that happen. In his current guise he’s offering nothing and I’m of the opinion we should start preparing for life without him by not playing him at all. On the plus side N’dombele is already looking like he will be a key player as we look considerably weaker when he isn’t on the pitch too!

 

[mudshark]

If you look at those stats it would appear that Lamela's are only marginally worse.... I guess the problem here is that they are similar when Lamela is considered to be playing well and Eriksen very poorly (and that's before you consider that Lamela cannot be relied on to play in more than 50% of games over a season). However it does suggest that on current form we could swap out Eriksen for Lamela (when fit) and not notice a difference. Although it would seem that we do very much need to notice a difference as we've been poor this season.

It's all a bit marginal, I think that's the issue

 

[mudshark]

It gets more complicated than that though.

Set the team up in a different shape, instruct the players on movements and runs etc - and you can compensate for the lack of a single player (in virtually any position, but certainly attack).

We beat RSB 5-0 just the other week, no Eriksen, no Eriksen type player = and no shortage of attacking intent, options, or success.

I get what your take is, but I'd be more confident if you were talking about a league game. They really were easy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you look at those stats it would appear that Lamela's are only marginally worse.... I guess the problem here is that they are similar when Lamela is considered to be playing well and Eriksen very poorly (and that's before you consider that Lamela cannot be relied on to play in more than 50% of games over a season). However it does suggest that on current form we could swap out Eriksen for Lamela (when fit) and not notice a difference. Although it would seem that we do very much need to notice a difference as we've been poor this season.

On current form Lamela is three times the player erisken is
The issue is that in peak from Eriksen is truly World class statistically and that’s what we miss
We have to adapt and change now as he is gone

 

[monkeybarry]

And that is a problem like it is with all our players who go to international duty. Sometimes i wish Poch would do what Fergie did on many occasions and pulled our players out of squads (especially those who have been injured) we only have to look at the problems we have had with Alli, Dier after playing for their Country.

I agree with the fergie sentiment - but it doesn't really happen anymore, I think that is a tactic of yesteryear.

 

[Raziel]

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