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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Parklaner81 said:
They're bluffing in my opinion, and their remainer comrades in parliament know this too which will help to ensure the defeat of May's deal on MV3. The gamble both groups might be taking though is that May won't follow through on no deal, and who really knows on that? This is all just personal feeling/intuition of course, who knows how it's all going to play out.
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I'm not so sure. It hasn't been the EU's MO so far and the UK have lost every game of chicken they have played to date. May can't stop a no deal if she has nothing to offer. The NI question is the only thing keeping the discussions going IMO.

As you say, it all might change tomorrow but getting a double shop at the weekend is not a bad idea, just in case ;).
 
The whole leave movement was energised and incubated in the bowls of the old Thatcherite tory ranks.

But so many who were bitterly against everything these right wing Tories stood for, voted the way these Thatcheriites wanted.
Strange.
 
r-u-s-x said:
And you will be judged on your ability
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Then I will be judged well.

We all know (even you more pink types) that improvement comes from competition. If you take away the competition and install a one-eyed tax monster, follow him with a gimpy fudge who can't eat a sandwich properly and follow him with that sparrow clam from Game of Thrones there will never be any improvement.

Edit: That may sound a little ranty, if so then blame the wine and not me
 
scaramanga said:
Then I will be judged well.

We all know (even you more pink types) that improvement comes from competition. If you take away the competition and install a one-eyed tax monster, follow him with a gimpy fudge who can't eat a sandwich properly and follow him with that sparrow clam from Game of Thrones there will never be any improvement.

Edit: That may sound a little ranty, if so then blame the wine and not me
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It is a bit... It's perfectly reasonable to expect people to be average without competition... PSG, celtic, juve.
 
Maybe people don't know what is in May's Brexit deal. There are only 3 concrete things as below, the 4th is a consequence of the 3rd:

  • A financial settlement with the EU.

  • The post-Brexit rights of EU citizens in the UK and British citizens on the continent.

  • A mechanism to prevent a “hard border” on the island of Ireland.

  • Until the UK and EU agree a new free trade deal, the UK is a vassal state of the EU, subect to its laws without any input into them. Indefinitely.

The rest of the exit agreement 'fluff' is non-binding. Things that both sides would in theory like. But they are sketchie at best. How did our government spend 2 years and come out with this? The reason both Leave and Remain MPs don't like this deal is because it is crap for the UK. There are zero benifits and a significant compromise. The biggest of which is we have less sovrignity for - litterally nothing - in return. Its the opposit of taking back control, and what people voted for. Moreover the exit deal compromises our future bargaining position with the EU, as if we don't agree we stay a subject vassal state.

It would also be the start of more of this nonsense that would run and run as we try to get a free trade deal. There is nothing good about it. This exit deal is kicking the can down the road some more, while degrading our position.
 
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By my reading there are 2 paths forward now
  1. Mays deal passes - extension to May 22nd to get it organised
  2. May's deal fails - 2 week extension to April 12th to cobble something else together. If they participate in elections maybe a longer extension. If they dont no deal on April 12th
 
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Rorschach said:
By my reading there are 2 paths forward now
  1. Mays deal passes - extension to May 22nd to get it organised
  2. May's deal fails - 2 week extension to April 12th to cobble something else together. If they participate in elections maybe a longer extension. If they dont no deal on April 12th
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Or May's deal can fail and she could just say sod it and leave on 29 March.

Basically if and when her deal fails it's either no deal or something like Norway, I wonder where she'll go - so stubborn I do wonder if she'll go no deal. She won't be able to go no deal on 12 April - she'll have been turfed out by then I imagine or gone to indicative votes.
 
P.D. said:
Or May's deal can fail and she could just say sod it and leave on 29 March.

  1. a c dharmaBasically if and when her deal fails it's either no deal or something like Norway, I wonder where she'll go - so stubborn I do wonder if she'll go no deal. She won't be able to go no deal on 12 April - she'll have been turfed out by then I imagine or gone to indicative votes.
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Parliament can force the EU elections and extension until the end of the year, right?
 
r-u-s-x said:
Parliament can force the EU elections and extension until the end of the year, right?
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Parliament doesn't have that power, they could amend a motion but they aren't binding on the government - admittedly it would cause a furore and May could be held in contempt but that doesn't physically change the law which still reads the 29th.
 
P.D. said:
Parliament doesn't have that power, they could amend a motion but they aren't binding on the government - admittedly it would cause a furore and May could be held in contempt but that doesn't physically change the law which still reads the 29th.
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Thanks, I am not up on parliamentary procedure. Could they not argue that the vote against no deal already serves this or is that non binding.
 
Wow 2.2 million people signed this in one day https://petition.parliament.uk/peti...METYjm_8KonsVXFSVdJnNo3H8JiIqHYYWKEdFZPrQrn9A

It would be a relief to end this nonsense. Unfrotunately we don't have a leader who is equiped to outline what needs doing and to outline a vision for Britian. Instead May is tinkling about with deals, the ERG, keepings the conservatives together. Anything but address the issue and try to take the country with her. The issue is Brexit doesn't give us anything (hence the trouble getting any form of it through) and taking the country with her is about outlining what we CAN do. How we support under represented communities, how we can send back EU immigrants who don't get work, how we can work with northern EU nations to look again at how freedom of movement works etc etc. Instead I am afraid we have a lack of ingenuity and a lot of head banging, with no change in sight.
 
glasgowspur said:
May has made such a pigs ear at it I think we should accept any deal that is better than the this mess regardless of who negotiates it.
It's gone way past the man/person/party, its about the deal. Which it always should have been, bet never has been.
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Im sorry, but for me thats just not right.

We have a structure of leadership, and in politics, for a reason.

We cant just toss it out because people thinks it suits them.



parklane1 said:
So you believe that the rest of Parliament have worked for the better cause?
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P.D. said:
Or May's deal can fail and she could just say sod it and leave on 29 March.

Basically if and when her deal fails it's either no deal or something like Norway, I wonder where she'll go - so stubborn I do wonder if she'll go no deal. She won't be able to go no deal on 12 April - she'll have been turfed out by then I imagine or gone to indicative votes.
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I'm not sure the 29th is all that important a date any more. I could be wrong.
 
Rorschach said:
I'm not sure the 29th is all that important a date any more. I could be wrong.
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BBC:
On Thursday night, after eight hours of talks, EU leaders offered to delay Brexit until 22 May if MPs approve Mrs May's deal next week.

If they do not approve it, the delay will be shorter - until 12 April - at which point the UK must set out its next steps or leave without a deal.
 
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