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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

elltrev said:
Can anyone signpost to an accurate and informed summary of what changes MPs want to see to May’s deal? I haven’t been able to find anything online! And presumably it’s different things for different MPs, af times in opposition to each other?
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The Tories want a way out of the backstop because it traps us in a permanent customs union
Labour want to make sure the backstop traps us in a permanent customs union
 
Jeremy Corbyn says he is seeking a "constructive alternative" to the PM's deal, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Labour leader was speaking after meeting the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, for talks in Brussels.

It comes ahead of an EU summit where Theresa May will ask EU leaders to postpone Brexit for three months.

Mr Corbyn said he did not believe the PM's deal "is a way forward".

"We are therefore looking at alternatives, and building a majority in Parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the European Union," he told reporters after the meeting.

Mr Corbyn was joined by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for the talks, which also included European Commission Secretary-General Martin Selmayr.

He is also expected to meet seven European leaders at the two-day summit, which begins later.



What do people actually make of this? While Ive said many times he should be trying to make a difference - it doesnt sit well with me that he is off round europe trying to negotiate separately from the Prime Minister.

And this isnt a Corbyn bashing thing, before certain posters get their knives out, this is more - should the opposition actually be undermining the countries leader like that...? thing.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is seeking a "constructive alternative" to the PM's deal, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Labour leader was speaking after meeting the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, for talks in Brussels.

It comes ahead of an EU summit where Theresa May will ask EU leaders to postpone Brexit for three months.

Mr Corbyn said he did not believe the PM's deal "is a way forward".

"We are therefore looking at alternatives, and building a majority in Parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the European Union," he told reporters after the meeting.

Mr Corbyn was joined by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for the talks, which also included European Commission Secretary-General Martin Selmayr.

He is also expected to meet seven European leaders at the two-day summit, which begins later.



What do people actually make of this? While Ive said many times he should be trying to make a difference - it doesnt sit well with me that he is off round europe trying to negotiate separately from the Prime Minister.

And this isnt a Corbyn bashing thing, before certain posters get their knives out, this is more - should the opposition actually be undermining the countries leader like that...? thing.
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You criticize him for having a pie in the sky deal the EU wont agree to and then criticize him for talking to EU and finding out if they can come up with a deal they can agree to. If he can work out an alternative isn't that what you wanted him to do?

I was going to raise the fact the EU have rightly not negotiated with Corbyn up until this point, they have tried to help her and I think they are now looking around for a deal that can get through Parliament and they are becoming convincingly certain Mays cant.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is seeking a "constructive alternative" to the PM's deal, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Labour leader was speaking after meeting the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, for talks in Brussels.

It comes ahead of an EU summit where Theresa May will ask EU leaders to postpone Brexit for three months.

Mr Corbyn said he did not believe the PM's deal "is a way forward".

"We are therefore looking at alternatives, and building a majority in Parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the European Union," he told reporters after the meeting.

Mr Corbyn was joined by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for the talks, which also included European Commission Secretary-General Martin Selmayr.

He is also expected to meet seven European leaders at the two-day summit, which begins later.



What do people actually make of this? While Ive said many times he should be trying to make a difference - it doesnt sit well with me that he is off round europe trying to negotiate separately from the Prime Minister.

And this isnt a Corbyn bashing thing, before certain posters get their knives out, this is more - should the opposition actually be undermining the countries leader like that...? thing.
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Just seems like yet another example of vacuous vagueness to me.
 
r-u-s-x said:
You criticize him for having a pie in the sky deal the EU wont agree to and then criticize him for talking to EU and finding out if they can come up with a deal they can agree to. If he can work out an alternative isn't that what you wanted him to do?

I was going to raise the fact the EU have rightly not negotiated with Corbyn up until this point, they have tried to help her and I think they are now looking around for a deal that can get through Parliament and they are becoming convincingly certain Mays cant.
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As I said, quite explicitly - this isnt an attack on Corbyn.

Rather its a statement that the opposition going round europe undermining our leadership doesnt sit well. And the question of what you guys think of it.

Just as, really, it doesnt sit well with me the idea of the EU meddling with our MPs outside of May.

And, to reiterate - as it seems you missed it the first time - this isnt a May/Corbyn thing. This is an Elected Prime Minister / Unelected Opposition thing.

Its one think to expect opposition to actively oppose in the house, something else when they are going round europe speaking the leaders and the EU.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
As I said, quite explicitly - this isnt an attack on Corbyn.

Rather its a statement that the opposition going round europe undermining our leadership doesnt sit well. And the question of what you guys think of it.

Just as, really, it doesnt sit well with me the idea of the EU meddling with our MPs outside of May.

And, to reiterate - as it seems you missed it the first time - this isnt a May/Corbyn thing. This is an Elected Prime Minister / Unelected Opposition thing.

Its one think to expect opposition to actively oppose in the house, something else when they are going round europe speaking the leaders and the EU.
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I saw you said it wasn't an attack on him, I don't think you were attacking him here, I do however think you have previously attacked him for having no credible alternative. This is what they are trying to get, with these discussions perhaps he is able to achieve it. If you are going to hold him responsible for the fudge up Brexit has become then give him a chance to sort it out.

I believe its up to the Government who has been able to negotiate with the EU to provide a plan that Parliament will agree to. May as leader has no intention of doing this but rather coming back with the same exact deal that has been rejected overwhelmingly previously. No wonder other parties are looking for an alternative.

Also bear in mind he was elected and he is looking for a majority in parliament under a hung parliament which is a fair tactic.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I saw you said it wasn't an attack on him, I don't think you were attacking him here, I do however think you have previously attacked him for having no credible alternative. This is what they are trying to get, with these discussions perhaps he is able to achieve it. If you are going to hold him responsible for the fudge up Brexit has become then give him a chance to sort it out.

I believe its up to the Government who has been able to negotiate with the EU to provide a plan that Parliament will agree to. May as leader has no intention of doing this but rather coming back with the same exact deal that has been rejected overwhelmingly previously. No wonder other parties are looking for an alternative.

Also bear in mind he was elected and he is looking for a majority in parliament under a hung parliament which is a fair tactic.
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He has never been elected as leadership of this country.

He has won internal elections to represent the Labour party. A wholey different thing.

I have attacked him for not using the house, and the voice he legitimately has within, to try and push the process to a place where it can work. He can have imposed himself in a number of ways in the arena where he should be doing so. And he hasnt.

I have attacked him for calling his pie in the sky deal "credible". It isnt. And as we discussed the other day - while youll argue on technicalities about it - I do believe it doesnt even satisfy any reasonable view of Brexit.

Neither of those things are what bother me here though. What bothers me is the idea of the leader of the opposition going into europe, speaking to the leaders of France and Germany, speaking to the EUs chief negotiator - all independent of the UK Leadership.

If he has the chance to negotiate his deal, it should come with a remit from the house/government. I dont feel he should be running off independently trying to negotiate and in so doing undermining our actual leadership.

That really doesnt feel right to me at all - and that is completely aside from it being Corbyn or my views of his performance so far.

If Corbyn was PM and May the opposition Id feel exactly the same.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Jeremy Corbyn says he is seeking a "constructive alternative" to the PM's deal, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Labour leader was speaking after meeting the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, for talks in Brussels.

It comes ahead of an EU summit where Theresa May will ask EU leaders to postpone Brexit for three months.

Mr Corbyn said he did not believe the PM's deal "is a way forward".

"We are therefore looking at alternatives, and building a majority in Parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the European Union," he told reporters after the meeting.

Mr Corbyn was joined by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for the talks, which also included European Commission Secretary-General Martin Selmayr.

He is also expected to meet seven European leaders at the two-day summit, which begins later.



What do people actually make of this? While Ive said many times he should be trying to make a difference - it doesnt sit well with me that he is off round europe trying to negotiate separately from the Prime Minister.

And this isnt a Corbyn bashing thing, before certain posters get their knives out, this is more - should the opposition actually be undermining the countries leader like that...? thing.
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May has made such a pigs ear at it I think we should accept any deal that is better than the this mess regardless of who negotiates it.
It's gone way past the man/person/party, its about the deal. Which it always should have been, bet never has been.
 
r-u-s-x said:
You criticize him for having a pie in the sky deal the EU wont agree to and then criticize him for talking to EU and finding out if they can come up with a deal they can agree to. If he can work out an alternative isn't that what you wanted him to do?

I was going to raise the fact the EU have rightly not negotiated with Corbyn up until this point, they have tried to help her and I think they are now looking around for a deal that can get through Parliament and they are becoming convincingly certain Mays cant.
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It does seem a bit like Hilary Clinton or Marine Le Pen turning up and having random side conversations at a G7 summit or something.

Corbyn's position is basically the same as May's. Neither will get through because neither side want to be seen as backing the other. The only difference is May has an outside chance of bringing round enough ERG.
 
Rorschach said:
It's no deal folks. Make your peace with it or break open a bottle of bubbly if that is your bent.
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I’m very suspicious by all things vote.
Not the outcome that’s fine but what led up to it being put in action and the timings!
Boris and Co are going around struggling to suppress a grin.
 
May was right saying what she did yesterday, i am no fan of May but what faith i did have in MP's ' (and its never been a lot since the Milk snatcher) has gone. They ALL should be ashamed of themselves putting their own feelings before doing their job.
 
parklane1 said:
May was right saying what she did yesterday, i am no fan of May but what faith i did have in MP's ' (and its never been a lot since the Milk snatcher) has gone. They ALL should be ashamed of themselves putting their own feelings before doing their job.
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It’s how parliament works in the UK.
The MP’s don’t all act like sheep as the did under Mrs T. bless her not’ and follow the party whips, thank goodness!
 
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