Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Or wanting to see the state able to intervene in the economy, to make it work better for the people
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Or wanting to see the state able to intervene in the economy, to make it work better for the people
Baleforce
Martin Peters
like bailing out banks, having an fscs, banning excessive charge fee's and changing the VAT rate you mean, yeah, we can't do that can we
yawn, again
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Maybe the better question for those who want to remain should be what is the EU's plan? I mean apart from Ever Closer Union with one President, One Currency, One Tax system, One Army under a United States Of Europe?
Yes but it was a prominent type of BREXIT that was being campaigned during the referendum - leaving the single market was a 11th hour change once they knew they had a chance of winning. During the referendum remain campaigners were saying that a Norway model will be worse than remaining, but it was certainly a model that was being pushed.
Norway + fulfills "the will of the people", solves the NI issue and we have "left the EU" - its crap but better than anything else we can achieve.
It is also likely to be the "will of the people" far more than no deal as all the Remain and a substantial minority of leavers would likely prefer this.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Give all meaningful power to the corporate elite and their technocrat police, and go to sleep? Resign to be being cattle?
StephenH
David Ginola
Sound like a good idea in some ways.
In truth what would be the difference from being led by the current bunch of jokers in Westminster.
Baleforce
Martin Peters
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Like nationalised energy and transport, a planned economy that is purposeful and produces what we need, no PFIs, a fair trade policy
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Not to mention: how have the EUs “closer union ideas, budgetary ideas, or tax ideas” had a negative impact on the UK? Or an individual like Nayim? Or how would they in the future.
The amount of misinformation re. The reality of this stuff is scandalous.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Campaigned for or not, I think its ridiculous. Its right in there with the BINO nonsense we heard all about, and if thats the case why even bother?
This is exactly why Ive been saying Id rather a Hard Brexit or Remain, BINO nonsense suits nobody.
StephenH
David Ginola
You already have as soon as you adhere to a countries laws and statutes.
It's just a matter of detail from then on.
The labour leadership wants the EU without state aid / nationalisation rules, this offers that. If they are able to get into power this will suit them perfectly.
The red lines / brexit means hard brexit only came about after the referendum, you have a point that it's largely pointless but you can't then point to the results to legitimised the position.
If you want to have that legitimacy you need another referendum without it this version of leaving the EU is just as democratic as hard and May's.
*not you but people
Baleforce
Martin Peters
still pushing the nationalised energy and transport myth
we have a planned economy, which is purposeful, we are part of a global production system
are you arguing for or against PFI's?
the EU has a fair trade policy, if we feel it doesn't go far enough on workers rights surely it's better to push that from within, if we care about foreign producers then improving their deal from the EU would have a far bigger impact than the UK alone right?
we have (had) a strong voice in the EU, why have we not pushed harder whilst being members?
Baleforce
Martin Peters
I'd vote for that, no borders, one people, sounds great.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im not against another referendum on what option to take, and I find it interesting both Tories and Labour are highly resistant to it.
I think Labours view of being on the EUs leash is nuts, but can see it suits them.
Still not entirely clear what May wants to be honest, but even her deal leaves us tied into their standards etc doesnt it?
Its clear that those that are in power really believe that a Hard Brexit will be very damaging to the country and are doing anything they can to avoid this. May is doing everything she can to avoid this while trying to keep her party (and DUP) happy and they all have totally different views, hence the complete mash up and inability to get it over the line.
I am not saying hard brexit will be damaging (although I believe this) but that those who have power (or potential power Labour) are motivated by this primarily and trying to get the best for them with this in mind. Given that hard brexit is effectively off the table what do you do within those restrictions and then the motivations become quite clear.
I think us 'remainers' are approaching this from the wrong angle. We try to use logic and facts to inform Brexiteers about the folly of Brexit.
But emotions will always hold more sway to most rather than logic and facts. This is demonstrated by the Brexiteers retoric being strong on emotions and weak on facts, yet they are setting the shape of the discourse. Why?
We need to be more base.
We need to start calling the Brexiters traitors
Russian stodges.
We need to start making brick up like the Brexiters do.
In short we need to win the emotional argument... Winning the factual one is not enough.
Taking the high road doesn't work, let's get dirty... Let's have a dust up.
But emotions will always hold more sway to most rather than logic and facts. This is demonstrated by the Brexiteers retoric being strong on emotions and weak on facts, yet they are setting the shape of the discourse. Why?
We need to be more base.
We need to start calling the Brexiters traitors
Russian stodges.
We need to start making brick up like the Brexiters do.
In short we need to win the emotional argument... Winning the factual one is not enough.
Taking the high road doesn't work, let's get dirty... Let's have a dust up.
StephenH
David Ginola
Scared they all will get an arse kicking at the ballots.
They have made a mess of it.
IMO - both do not want it as it looks un democratic
&
Tory leadership don't want it because it would tear the party in half - lose voters to UKIP
Labour leadership don't want it because they want nationalization and its easier outside EU - lose voters in key marginals/