FA Cup or Top 4?

[spitshine]

And with Chelsea v Man U

What’s the point of torturing myself any further

 

[Legohamster]

Well yeah, hence why we need to establish ourselves at the top and then push on and win trophies

We’ve been a cemented top 6 side for years and 2 cycles of very good teams (even Harry admitted he should have won a cup) I think we are just hearing excuses for failure.

Be it the results themselves or squads built.

 

[NoLimits01]

We’ve been a cemented top 6 side for years and 2 cycles of very good teams (even Harry admitted he should have won a cup) I think we are just hearing excuses for failure.

Be it the results themselves or squads built.

I’m sure if you had given Poch £1bn pounds spread over the last 4 years then we would be in a position to do both, but until you or someone else can do this we will just have to live within our means and prioritise the league over the domestic cups


I’m never wrong, but sometimes I may be less right

 

[billyiddo]

We’ve been a cemented top 6 side for years and 2 cycles of very good teams (even Harry admitted he should have won a cup) I think we are just hearing excuses for failure.

Be it the results themselves or squads built.

What excuses are you talking about? Because the ones i see most are from people like yourself who moan about Levy not spending money and Poch supposedly resting players in favour of the league or not wanting to win the domestic cups - afaic we have had a side good enough to win trophies and qualify for the CL these past few seasons, no question about it. That we haven't is the nature of the competitive football - 5 other sides in the league will fancy themselves just as much as we do for a cup each year and with only two on offer it doesn't take a genius to work out more will be dissapointed than not.

 

[Legohamster]

I’m sure if you had given Poch £1bn pounds spread over the last 4 years then we would be in a position to do both, but until you or someone else can do this we will just have to live within our means and prioritise the league over the domestic cups


I’m never wrong, but sometimes I may be less right

Why does he need a billion pounds if he is that great of a manager?

Our finical situation is top 6 - our cup success is not.

 

[Legohamster]

What excuses are you talking about? Because the ones i see most are from people like yourself who moan about Levy not spending money and Poch supposedly resting players in favour of the league or not wanting to win the domestic cups - afaic we have had a side good enough to win trophies and qualify for the CL these past few seasons, no question about it. That we haven't is the nature of the competitive football - 5 other sides in the league will fancy themselves just as much as we do for a cup each year and with only two on offer it doesn't take a genius to work out more will be dissapointed than not.

What excuses are you talking about? Because the ones i see most are from people like yourself who moan about Levy not spending money and Poch supposedly resting players in favour of the league or not wanting to win the domestic cups - afaic we have had a side good enough to win trophies and qualify for the CL these past few seasons, no question about it. That we haven't is the nature of the competitive football - 5 other sides in the league will fancy themselves just as much as we do for a cup each year and with only two on offer it doesn't take a genius to work out more will be dissapointed than not.

Coming out and saying Christian is shattered before the game (he is) is an excuse.

The reason? Poor squad building means we still don’t have anyone to be able to step him.

 

[billyiddo]

Poch gave the reason for Eriksen being rested, he did not use it as an excuse for the loss, that's what you're doing by implying we didn't win because Eriksen didn't play and we don't have anyone to play in his place (presumably we lined up with ten men?)

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I know its an old fashion idea but I would prefer us to play well rather than win a cup, we've not hit he heights this season but our teamwork and spirit has got us through. Given a choice of either win a cup or playing in CL I would go for CL as there have been some great nights and the FA Cup has lost a lot of its glamour which is a great shame. Would the fans who want a cup win be happy playing on a Thursday night against the likes of Armenian Ploughmakers FC as a prize?

 

[StephenH]

Armenian Ploughmakers FC

That was a great night!

 

[SteveAWOL]

This is why we must prioritise the CL qualification in the short term IMHO...

Financial Fair Play rules dictate that clubs can only increase their wage bill by same amount as annual revenue rise plus up to £7m, so we need that extra £73million per season which CL football brings in order for our wage bill to finally catchup with the rest of the Big Six...

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/premier-league-update-their-ffp-rules



As that’ll permit us to assemble a squad with enough quality in depth for Pochettino to be able to compete on all 4 fronts. Then the silverware we all crave should follow and be a regular occurrence, rather than the once a decade morsel of the past quarter century...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This is why we must prioritise the CL qualification in the short term IMHO...

Financial Fair Play rules dictate that clubs can only increase their wage bill by same amount as annual revenue rise plus up to £7m, so we need that extra £73million per season which CL football brings in order for our wage bill to finally catchup with the rest of the Big Six...

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/premier-league-update-their-ffp-rules

View attachment 5881

As that’ll permit us to assemble a squad with enough quality in depth for Pochettino to be able to compete on all 4 fronts. Then the silverware we all crave should follow and be a regular occurrence, rather than the once a decade morsel of the past quarter century...

View attachment 5882

No c.unts waiting for that.

It's now or Twitter/Facebook are gonna get it.

 

[parklane1]

I fail to see why it has to be one or the other, we have a very good side and its good enough to finish in the top four AND win a Cup. This year we have at least made a show of naming strong teams which gave us a chance of winning a cup unlike other years when we have thrown the towel in by naming weak sides. I really believe we were the better side against both Chelski and Palace and the reason we did not win either was poor finishing.

I agree we need to be in the top four but with the squad we have we should also have made more of a effort to win a trophy in previous years.

 

[the dza]

Where we are right now, I vote top 4.

 

[SteveAWOL]

No c.unts waiting for that.

It's now or Twitter/Facebook are gonna get it.

 

[spitshine]

Since 1973 (46yrs) we have won
3 FA Cups
2 League Cups
1 Uefa Cup

Thats it, this idealist view of Tottenham as this all all conquering cup team is absolute fantasy.

In that time we have been relegated - and finished in the top 3 just 6 times
3 of those times are the last 3 years

Since 2009 we have finished in the top 6, 9 times in a row, one more time than the 37yrs previously combined


Since 2009 a non top 4 club has won the FA cup once

So if winning a cup every 8yrs but finishing 11th is what you want, great, however its shown over the last 10yrs that only teams in the top 4 win the cup now anyway
Therefore the primary concern is to build a squad, team and club that over time is part of the top 4, once this happens and you get the "luck of the draw" we may win one
But by not trying to become a top 4 club, taking the champs league money and building a team you wont win a cup anyway.

There’s no guarantee that regular CL qualification equates to winning trophies.
What there is and history tell us is that a club to win the big prizes, win the smaller ones first.

A natural progression like Man U under sir Alex where he won the fa cup, charity shield, cup winners cup iirc then league champions.
This is how a squad grows in confidence start winning a few cups.

We’ve missed this natural progression and to go from top 6 to premier league champions as a first trophy is rare. Leicester being the obvious exception.

 

[billyiddo]

There’s no guarantee that regular CL qualification equates to winning trophies.
What there is and history tell us is that a club to win the big prizes, win the smaller ones first.

A natural progression like Man U under sir Alex where he won the fa cup, charity shield, cup winners cup iirc then league champions.
This is how a squad grows in confidence start winning a few cups.

We’ve missed this natural progression and to go from top 6 to premier league champions as a first trophy is rare. Leicester being the obvious exception.

If Liverpool win the league this season they too will have done so without first winning a smaller trophy - so that's potentially 2 teams to have won the league as their first trophy (could also count City as prior to the season they won their first title they had won nothing as a team - they won the LC the same season but you'd struggle to convince me that played any part in their title win)

Whereas all of the regular CL sides (say 5 or more appearences) over the length of the PL have seen a healthy return of trophies - so of the two circumstances one is more absoloute than the other.

Interestingly Leeds and Saudi Sportswashing Machine both had a small run of CL appearances at different times in the PL era and neither managed to win trophies either - perhaps the key lays somewhere in the difference between having a brief period at the top and having a more sustained period? Where we are now is similar to where LU and NU were before they slipped away and plummeted, only that's not likely to happen to us thanks to the self sustained growth we have achieved over the last decade or so and the reinvestment of funds in to infastructure - as a result of this approach we'll likely continue to be in and around the top 4 for a good long while to come, which should in turn increase our chances of winning trophies in a way neither of the aforementioned clubs were able.

Smaller trophies are 'easier' to win than the bigger ones so most sides that go on to win the league or CL will get the opportunity to pick up a cup or two beforehand.

 

[DeanoAustin]

If you offered me one year of CL football or an FA Cup, Id take the FA Cup (or even League Cup) all day long. However, that’s not what we are about these days. Staying in the top 4 is important because we’re established regulars in the competition now and qualifying regularly is helping us get to where Poch and Levy want us (challenging for the PL and CL). You can see the progress we’re making over a period of time.

I’ve been a Spurs supporter for 35 years. This is the time I’ve enjoyed the most and I say that as someone who was very weary after AVB and Tactics Tim. Most Monday’s, I’m walking 10 foot tall because we’ve won at the weekend more times than I ever recall in the past. I remember the dogbrick we played under Ramos for the last 8 months of his reign. I remember the dirge we played under Gooner George. I almost needed a shower after that League Cup win. Even under El Tel, we were very flaky a lot of the time. And they were the last three to win trophies. I’ve enjoyed this era so much more particularly when I can see where Poch and Levy want to take us.

 

[StephenH]

If Liverpool win the league this season they too will have won the league without first winning a smaller trophy.

Smaller trophies are 'easier' to win than the bigger ones so most sides that go on to win the league or CL will get the opportunity to pick up a cup or two beforehand.

On the flip side regarding your opening line, of all the regular CL sides (say 5 or more appearences) over the length of the PL all have seen a healthy return of trophies - so of the two approaches one sees a more conclusive return than the other...

Disagree, cups are more likely to be hoovered up by well established super sides eg City as they exercise thier squads superiority.

Cups are now much harder to win due to the supremacy of the City’s and Man U. of this world especially in the last five seasons imo.

 

[balesleftboot]

We’ve never had it so good

Not since 1991 anyway, how many who supported Spurs during the glory glory days would think this is better. All about qualifying an overrated competition because that's where the money is.

 

[nayenezgani]

FA Cup, all day and every day.

It has been over ten years since we last won trophy, and this is the first time since the 1920's (I think) that we will have gone an entire decade without winning anything.

It's hard to describe how much of a depressing failure that is for a club that was once about glory. To realize we're running a cheap version of Wenger's Top Four Trophy with zero spend model ...

...well, it's just depressing. To be Spurs should be about more than making the utterly, utterly useless billionaire who owns our club his 1000% profit when he sells up and f*cks off. These trophies, these memories...these are the things you'll tell your grandkids in 50 years or more.

'Thst time we had a 40% wages-to-turnover ratio', or 'That time we beat Real Madrid and then immediately went out in the first knockout round'....these are worthless by comparison.

Typically embarrassing carry on from a so-called supporter. When was the last positive contribution you made to this forum or as a Spurs fan in general?