1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Please read this post: https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/fund-raising-for-jeremy-yermiyahu.10542/
    Dismiss Notice

Ukraine

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by spurs' magna carter, 1 Mar 2014.

  1. spurs' magna carter

    spurs' magna carter Sebastien Bassong

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2013
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    255
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035

    Very worrying times for Ukraine and potentially Europe.
     
  2. Jordinho

    Jordinho Bill Brown Staff Member

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    43,682
    Likes Received:
    11,613
    Location:
    Next season
    Putin might be about to get his ass handed to him. Most of the big nations are condemning this invasion and the UN Security Council is having emergency meetings.
     
  3. Baleforce

    Baleforce Fanny Walden

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    32,603
    Likes Received:
    17,810
    how is this happening, what ****ing right to Russia have to do this
     
  4. Notmegov

    Notmegov Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Location:
    Nappy Land
    Don't Russia have a veto on the security council?

    Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk
     
  5. spurs' magna carter

    spurs' magna carter Sebastien Bassong

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2013
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    255
    Ukraine's vast coal and gas supplies. Russia has always bullied it's neighbouring country's having a force full approach to protecting its interests.

    Also if Ukraine joined the European Union then that could spell the end of Russia's as Europe's biggest power.
     
  6. spurs' magna carter

    spurs' magna carter Sebastien Bassong

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2013
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    255
    Yes. They are a permanent member of the UN Security Council along with the United states, China, France and United Kingdom.
     
  7. Baleforce

    Baleforce Fanny Walden

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    32,603
    Likes Received:
    17,810
    I get why Russia are doing it, just not why they think they will get away it
     
  8. Richie

    Richie Naybet

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    24
    We aren't going to war with Russia over Ukraine. In fact, most Western governments don't seem to care. Wasn't even mentioned at PMQs on Wednesday.

    I forsee a split Ukraine in to east and west, with the east annexed by Russia and west integrating with Europe and the EU.
     
  9. Baleforce

    Baleforce Fanny Walden

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    32,603
    Likes Received:
    17,810
    I'm not suggesting anything that extreme but surely this will cost them
     
  10. Notmegov

    Notmegov Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Location:
    Nappy Land
    I see the police that were involved with the shootings in Kiev have all been given Russian pass ports. Just like south Georgia .
     
  11. Notmegov

    Notmegov Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Location:
    Nappy Land
    Interesting article (i know its the Daily Fail but!!!) about the treaty we and the west signed with Ukraine when it gave up its Nuclear weapons.

    A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
    Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
    The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol.
    At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.
    Scroll down for video
    The Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1991 by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma - the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine. It promises to protect Ukraine's borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons +11
    The Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1991 by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma - the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine. It promises to protect Ukraine's borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons
    Last night it was still unclear the exact scale of Russian boots on the ground in Crimea or the identity of gunmen who have taken over airports in Simferopol and Sevastopol – though reports suggest they are Russian marines or Moscow- controlled militias.
    The action came as President Obama delivered blunt warnings to Moscow.
    'We are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the Russian Federation inside of Ukraine,' he told reporters at the White House.
    'Any violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity would be deeply destabilizing,' he said in a brief appearance.
    'The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.'
    U.S. officials also said the President could scrap plans to attend an international summit in Russia and take negotiations on deepening trade ties with the country off the table in response to Russian involvement in the Ukraine.
    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel added: "This could be a very dangerous situation if this continues in a provocative way."
    Asked about options in a CBS News interview, he said that "We're trying to deal with a diplomatic focus, that's the appropriate, responsible approach."
    Both the U.S. and the UK are advising against all non-essential trips to Ukraine - especially Crimea.
    former British Ambassador to Moscow Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said in an interview that war could be an option 'if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.' +11
    former British Ambassador to Moscow Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said in an interview that war could be an option 'if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.'
    NATO also asked Russia not to take action that could escalate tension. However Moscow responded by telling the organization to 'refrain' from provocative statements on Ukraine and respect its 'non-bloc' status.
    Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said that war could be an option 'if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.'
    It promises to protect Ukraine's borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.
    Kiev has demanded the agreement is activated after insisting their borders had been violated.
    In response Mr Brenton said in a BBC radio interview: 'If indeed this is a Russian invasion of Crimea and if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding then it's very difficult to avoid the conclusion that we're going to go to war with Russia'.
    Ukraine accused Russia of a 'military invasion and occupation', saying Russian troops have taken up positions around a coast guard base and two airports on its strategic Crimea peninsula.
    Russia kept silent on the accusations, as the crisis deepened between two of Europe's largest countries.
    Any Russian military incursion in Crimea would dramatically raise the stakes in Ukraine's conflict, which saw pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych flee last weekend after three months of anti-government protests. Yanukovych vowed Friday at a news conference in Russia to 'keep fighting for the future of Ukraine,' though he called any military action 'unacceptable.'
    Moscow has vowed to protect Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Crimea, where it has a major naval base, and Ukraine and the West have warned Russia to stay away.
    Russia did not confirm its troops were involved in Friday's action in Crimea, which would be a major escalation.
    In Kiev, Ukraine's parliament adopted a resolution demanding that Russia halt steps it says are aimed against Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and called for a U.N. Security Council meeting on the crisis.
    THE BUDAPEST REFERENDUM
    Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances was a international treaty signed on February, 5, 1994, in Budapest.
    The diplomatic document saw signatories make promises to each other as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    It was signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine.
    The agreement promises to protest Ukraine's borders in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.
    It is not a formal treaty, but rather, a diplomatic document.
    It was an unprecedented case in contemporary international life and international law.
    Whether is it legally binding in complex.
    'It is binding in international law, but that doesn't mean it has any means of enforcement,' says Barry Kellman is a professor of law and director of the International Weapons Control Center at DePaul University's College of Law told Radio Free Europe.
    'I can only describe this as a military invasion and occupation,' Ukraine's newly named interior minister, Arsen Avakov, wrote in a Facebook post.
    The chief of Ukraine's security council, Andriy Parubiy, seemed to strike a less strident tone later in the day, saying gunmen had tried to 'seize' the airports in the Crimean cities of Simferopol and Sevastopol but insisting in comments to the Interfax news agency that 'de-facto the airports are controlled by the law enforcement bodies of Ukraine.'
    Ukraine's State Border Guard Service also said about 30 Russian marines from Russia's Black Sea Fleet - which is based in Sevastopol - had taken up position outside the Ukrainian Coast Guard base in the area. It said the marines said they were there to prevent any weapons at the base from being seized by extremists.
    Russia's defense ministry had no comment.
    Yanukovych made his first public appearance since fleeing Ukraine in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, not far from the Ukrainian border. It was the first confirmation that he had left the country, and he said he was 'forced' to do so only after his family received threats.
    'I intend to keep fighting for the future of Ukraine,' he said.
    Yanukovych said he supports Crimea's residents who are worried about 'nationalists' in Kiev and added that Russia cannot stand by while events in Ukraine unfold. He denied, however, that this amounts to a call for military intervention.
    'Any military action in this situation is unacceptable,' he said.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-difficult-avoid-going-war.html#ixzz2uk5yJc2D
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  12. P.D.

    P.D. Mitchell Thomas

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    5,116
    Likes Received:
    1,276
    Location:
    London

    Surely if a UN security council resolution is about one of the permanent members then they are excluded from the voting no? Would be a bit silly otherwise.
     
  13. scaramanga

    scaramanga Vivian Woodward Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    28,387
    Likes Received:
    15,952
    You trust the UN to get something that simple right?
     
  14. Richie

    Richie Naybet

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    24
    No they aren't excluded from voting but even if they were, China would likely defend Russia
     
  15. Trixster

    Trixster Nico Claesen

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    This is what will most likely happen, mother-in-law and extended family live in Sevastopol and they were thankful that the Russian troops had come across more as they want nothing to do with the people who rose up in Kiev. As far as they are concerned their view is the same as the rest of the Russians in Crimea, that they are all fascists and historically betrayed Russia by collaborating with the Nazis. But from all accounts a lot is being made bigger by the media surprise surprise.

    My guess is it will happen the same as the Russia / Georgia war in 08, if Putin decides to take on all of Ukraine then all hell has a chance of breaking loose, settle for Crimea and defend the people that have asked to be defended (as Ossetia) then the West will use large words and threaten to be nasty and that is about it.
     
  16. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Gordon Durie

    Joined:
    5 Oct 2012
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    14
    my father went to Ukraine just two days ago. Poor bastard
     
  17. the fox in the box

    the fox in the box Øyvind Leonhardsen

    Joined:
    20 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    0
    What Russia are doing is not as bad as what the UK and USA did invading Iraq. The hypocrisy of ours and the US goverment is hilarious!

    The media are having us belive that we are the "goodies" and russia are the "baddies".... it is nowhere near as simple as this. there is a lot of blood on everyones hands!

    Putin may be repeating a lot of mistakes that Hitler did that led to WWII but I believe Putin is much cleverer than that! He will come out smelling of roses once this dies down, claim control of Crimea (an area with a vast majority of Pro Russians) and anyonoe who doesnt like it will be allowed to leave.

    No one wants war, not in the nuclear age!
     
  18. Bullet

    Bullet Cecil Poynton

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    12,570
    Likes Received:
    7,767
    Crimea river
     
  19. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    15,589
    Likes Received:
    7,894
    Location:
    RIP. Coronavirus 2020
    Russia was never going to let go easily.

    We spend a lot of time in Latvia, usually in Liepaja on the coast where we have a home the people there are Latvian and close to Germany. But last summer we went to a wedding on the other side of Latvia close to the border with Russia. The people all speak Russian and consider themselves Russian.

    In Latvia the is an ongoing conflict between the ones who consider themselves European and the others who are loyal to Russia. The were massive problems a few years ago when they tried to change the languages in the schools to Latvian, then English as the second language and Russian as third. The western parts did not mind but the eastern parts did.

    In the end so much trouble was caused they dropped the plans in the eastern regions. I believe Putin has his hands all over things like this. The eastern block countries joining the EU was a blow to Putin and he will do everything to get it back even if it takes 30 years.

    Mark my words as I know a little about this region the Russians are active in a lot of the east european countries.
     
  20. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Gordon Durie

    Joined:
    5 Oct 2012
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    14
    Yanukovych apparently dead
     

Share This Page