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***Tottenham Hotspur v Scumball Wanderers***

AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I dont know why everyone is going on about VAR. We already know its a broken system in its current form.

Instead we should be discussing the absolutely disgraceful performance the players turned in against an average arsenal side in our biggest derby - after all if they didnt get the pelanty there is every chance they would have scored within minutes afterwards given how woeful we were. In fact for all we know we may have instead gone on to lose by a bigger margin. After all 2-1 flattered us massively.

It was a disgraceful performance from minute 1. We looked like the side that had travelled away in europe in midweek. Lucas was probably our best player but his press from the number 10 position from the beginning was pathetic and I feel that set the tone. Ndombele on the whole played like a coward always taking the safe option. PEH was also very poor misplacing paces regularly. Tienery played well but he shouldnt have been getting in that often and no it shouldnt need a sissoko or bergwijn holding the right backs hand to keep him quiet.

I feel a lot of this is on the manager. The players were all round pretty pathetic and he is meant to coach them. The players are on the whole cowards but its on his watch.

If he cant get them performing in the derby for gods sake then get out and get someone else in.

The personnel is largely there imo, yet time and again away from home we are a joke. I fear that even if we dont win a trophy this season that levy will give him one more year to do something worthwhile but it will be a year wasted. The players clearly are not completely on board with Jose, we can see that too often in the performances and doing it in the derby is now enough is enough for me.
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Hard to argue with a lot of that, sadly...:(
 
a spur from swansea said:
Why has football got to be so different why doesn't it pick ideas off rugby, if the ref is unusure of a try ,he says to the TMO is there any reason i cant give a try, someone has a look gives the ref a hand and says yes a try no it ain't ,what's so wrong for a ref to get some help, yesterday he could have asked is there any reason i can't give a pelanty, and the fifth official said no it wasn't and gives advice to go to the monitor just to confirm. The same in cricket TMO helps out the umpire to get to the RIGHT DECISION.

It seems like football refs have this ego that they need to be right all the time, its all about them........no its all about them its all about in getting the right decision.
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The ref on the pitch shouldn't have the final say in the event there is an error - the ref should just be seen as the officials teams 'man the pitch' - with the team off the field correcting any big decisions made in error.


As an aside, poll results on a mixed board i read:

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Z03hheS.jpg
 
a spur from swansea said:
Why has football got to be so different why doesn't it pick ideas off rugby, if the ref is unusure of a try ,he says to the TMO is there any reason i cant give a try, someone has a look gives the ref a hand and says yes a try no it ain't ,what's so wrong for a ref to get some help, yesterday he could have asked is there any reason i can't give a pelanty, and the fifth official said no it wasn't and gives advice to go to the monitor just to confirm. The same in cricket TMO helps out the umpire to get to the RIGHT DECISION.

It seems like football refs have this ego that they need to be right all the time, its all about them........no its all about them its all about in getting the right decision.
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Problem is that in the case of Oliver, he has a history with Mourinho, and an agenda, so his question would have been "is there any way in which I CAN give a penalty?" If the answer was no, he'd have given it anyway.
 
My final take on this game (before it gets confined to a bad memory) is that perhaps the difference on the day was that actually Woolwich were very good. It hurts to say this but i suspect that any gameplan we might have had was possibly shut down very early on by them.
 
Is there a stat anywhere on how many times that Arsenal's keeper went long compared to how many times Lloris did?

That should give us pretty definitive evidence on whether we were actually instructed to play a press or not.

I have seen some comments that Arsenal's own pressing game destroyed our own game plan and while it may have forced us to go long a lot more often from Lloris, it wouldn't stop us from forcing them to do the same when the ball went back to their own keeper.

I think it is evident that despite picking a bunch of attacking players we settled into a mid to low block. I think Jose 's game plan was to try to catch them on the break.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Is there a stat anywhere on how many times that Arsenal's keeper went long compared to how many times Lloris did?

That should give us pretty definitive evidence on whether we were actually instructed to play a press or not.

I have seen some comments that Arsenal's own pressing game destroyed our own game plan and while it may have forced us to go long a lot more often from Lloris, it wouldn't stop us from forcing them to do the same when the ball went back to their own keeper.

I think it is evident that despite picking a bunch of attacking players we settled into a mid to low block. I think Jose 's game plan was to try to catch them on the break.
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How does the kicking of their keeper correlate?
Is it the assumption If we put them under pressure he would kick long?
I mean that would make sense if the ball was in their area and their half more but it could be quite misleading
I mean the stats at the end of the game made possession and shooting look quite similar and that’s not a reflection on the game
 
01777A7E-13F2-41CE-A4A6-B7BC83767C03.png
Finney Is Back said:
Is there a stat anywhere on how many times that Arsenal's keeper went long compared to how many times Lloris did?

That should give us pretty definitive evidence on whether we were actually instructed to play a press or not.

I have seen some comments that Arsenal's own pressing game destroyed our own game plan and while it may have forced us to go long a lot more often from Lloris, it wouldn't stop us from forcing them to do the same when the ball went back to their own keeper.

I think it is evident that despite picking a bunch of attacking players we settled into a mid to low block. I think Jose 's game plan was to try to catch them on the break.
Click to expand...

I have found the stats on who scored

Leno - made 20 passes all game, 9 long and completed 2 of them
Hugo - made 33 passes all game, 20 long and completed 10 of them


457F601E-BFF9-41D3-8179-DCA82C49684D.png
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I dont know why everyone is going on about VAR. We already know its a broken system in its current form.

Instead we should be discussing the absolutely disgraceful performance the players turned in against an average arsenal side in our biggest derby - after all if they didnt get the pelanty there is every chance they would have scored within minutes afterwards given how woeful we were. In fact for all we know we may have instead gone on to lose by a bigger margin. After all 2-1 flattered us massively.

It was a disgraceful performance from minute 1. We looked like the side that had travelled away in europe in midweek. Lucas was probably our best player but his press from the number 10 position from the beginning was pathetic and I feel that set the tone. Ndombele on the whole played like a coward always taking the safe option. PEH was also very poor misplacing paces regularly. Tienery played well but he shouldnt have been getting in that often and no it shouldnt need a sissoko or bergwijn holding the right backs hand to keep him quiet.

I feel a lot of this is on the manager. The players were all round pretty pathetic and he is meant to coach them. The players are on the whole cowards but its on his watch.

If he cant get them performing in the derby for gods sake then get out and get someone else in.

The personnel is largely there imo, yet time and again away from home we are a joke. I fear that even if we dont win a trophy this season that levy will give him one more year to do something worthwhile but it will be a year wasted. The players clearly are not completely on board with Jose, we can see that too often in the performances and doing it in the derby is now enough is enough for me.
Click to expand...
I think our players should be able to put in enough effort in a NLD regardless of what the manager said or did. To me this reflects more on the players than the manager.

Usually the problem is getting players fired up for smaller games, that's usually more difficult and more up to the manager. To fail at the basics of effort and intensity in a NLD, that's just not good enough and mostly on the players imo.
 
pretty annoying with whoscored chalkboards is that they show the pass map for each player but only from where the pass was placed, not the direction or length etc despite holding that info - unless im not looking in the right place
 
Finney Is Back said:
Is there a stat anywhere on how many times that Arsenal's keeper went long compared to how many times Lloris did?

That should give us pretty definitive evidence on whether we were actually instructed to play a press or not.

I have seen some comments that Arsenal's own pressing game destroyed our own game plan and while it may have forced us to go long a lot more often from Lloris, it wouldn't stop us from forcing them to do the same when the ball went back to their own keeper.

I think it is evident that despite picking a bunch of attacking players we settled into a mid to low block. I think Jose 's game plan was to try to catch them on the break.
Click to expand...
Mid block for me, which is fine. But nothing works without intensity and aggression.

Had we played a high line with a similar lack of intensity it would have been worse. Had we played a similar style, but with intensity it would have been a lot better.

I don't think a high press style is inherently better than a mid block. More depends on the players, the opposition etc.
 
Finney Is Back said:
So 61% long balls vs 45% long balls.... It perhaps says something but maybe not absolutely definitively?
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Maybe
I mean the stats in my opinion don’t reflect the game
They make it look more competitive than what it was
We had more touches of the ball too which is very different to how I saw it
 
billyiddo said:
pretty annoying with whoscored chalkboards is that they show the pass map for each player but only from where the pass was placed, not the direction or length etc despite holding that info - unless im not looking in the right place
Click to expand...
The green lines are the length aren’t they?
 
braineclipse said:
I think our players should be able to put in enough effort in a NLD regardless of what the manager said or did. To me this reflects more on the players than the manager.

Usually the problem is getting players fired up for smaller games, that's usually more difficult and more up to the manager. To fail at the basics of effort and intensity in a NLD, that's just not good enough and mostly on the players imo.
Click to expand...
But isn’t it a case of better teams make us struggle more by putting us under pressure that we can’t deal with.. abs we then can’t raise our intensity
 
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