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To Dier is To Do (Doo)

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Jordinho, 31 Jul 2014.

  1. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Steffen Iversen

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    I wouldn’t. I would say that that he had to stay with his own man who was in a far more dangerous goal scoring position. Tanganga was also very poor though I agree there.
     
  2. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Jack Jull

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    Why the feck Moura lets Fornals walk straight past him then points out the danger instead of dealing with it himself.

    B911F353-D664-4C99-B48F-FF252A51DDE7.jpeg
    73A99FA9-CCAF-4F62-85D6-A374F2D78A41.jpeg
     
    DubSpur likes this.
  3. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ralph Coates Staff Member

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    I can't for the life of my work out how anyone could or would do that.

    Defending 101 though - you mark from the front to the back (at least within the danger area). Dier takes up a good position with Antonio to start. When the other player becomes the foremost danger then Dier has to cover him. Knowing there's a keeper and a defender both goal side of Antonio then it's safe to do that. Tanganga get caught on his heels and doesn't see the play/danger developing.
     
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  4. elltrev

    elltrev Didier Zokora

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    For me Dier’s mistake isn’t leaving Antonio to go with Fornals, it’s failing to cover that space earlier. Similar to City’s second goal against us, where he left a huge gap after Sanchez had been pulled wider.

    Agree Tanganga could have done better too, and Lloris.

    It’s also just a brilliant cross, thanks to Bowen having as much time as he wanted due to Reguilon being taken out.
     
  5. 90291Spur

    90291Spur Paul Robinson

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    And allied to the fact that NOBODY ELSE closed him down. Not a single one of them.
     
  6. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Barry Daines

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    Mexico..All's I'm saying
    Anyone left who thinks this guy can still cut it at CB?
     
  7. DubSpur

    DubSpur Steven Caulker

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    He's a useful player to have in the squad as he can cover a number of positions in case we have an injury pile up in any position.
    He shouldn't be the first choice in any position though.
     
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  8. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Vivian Woodward

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    I’d tend to agree but we have too many fillers and he isnt even homegrown
    Needs to leave for his own sake
     
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  9. DubSpur

    DubSpur Steven Caulker

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "fillers". If the squad is about 25 then that should be 2 in each position and 3 for keepers.
    That leaves a couple of spots for players that can cover a number of positions to help cover injuries. That is the one
    strength that Dier has and the reason for keeping him. He won't be top quality in any one position but will do a job
    when needed.
     
  10. Legohamster

    Legohamster Steffen Iversen

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    That photo sums us up really, lots of players doing nothing.

    No one closing down the cross, Moura passing on someone at the last minute and a CB out of position
     
  11. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Vivian Woodward

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    I mean we have too many currently who play on the first 11 who are fillers. Players who aren’t good enough
    We had over half a teams worth yesterday IMO
    Keeping them as squad players is part of our problem. They are too comfortable here
     
  12. Bishop

    Bishop Gudni Bergsson

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    Yup. People keep making arguements for various players usefulness as squad players yet not realising they are playing as first teamers.

    A squad full to brim of backups gets you 9th place. We should not be thinking about esoteric situations when a player might be useful. We needed to think about the first 11 and generating funds to improve it. By simply replacing first teamers you gain reasonable squad players.
     
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  13. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Steffen Iversen

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    Looking at that picture and having watched the goal again, I think it actually shows that our players don’t know who they are supposed to be marking or what zones they are supposed to be covering.... it just looks like rank bad coaching from our ‘second to none’ coaching team.

    I do take back a lot of what I said about Dier by the way. He sees the near post run and goes with that. I don’t blame him for covering that as he sees nobody else doing it.

    Moura (our attacking midfielder is originally on Fornals? Why? That is just plainly wrong... He should be Tanganga’s player. In this situation Tanganga has to realise that he is covering no player and no space that needs to be covered and also that he has completely lost his player and therefore needs to come across to cover Antonio so that Dier can go with Fornals.

    The whole thing though comes from Son not doing his job. West Ham’s right back has pushed up, Son hasn’t bothered to follow him, that in inexcusable I think. This is what causes Sanchez and Hojbjeg to have to pull out wide to ensure that West Ham don’t have a 3 on 2 overload. West Ham have now created a dream situation with a huge amount of space between our centre backs and our defensive midfielder also out wide so unable to fill that space. Had Son even made a cursory effort to track Coufal then he would’ve been in a decent position to block Bowen’s cross, or at least not allow him to have the time and space to pick out a good ball. Either Sanchez or Hojbjerg also then could’ve stayed central and covered that space Fornals was running into, allowing Dier to stay on Antonio.

    I question what the players are being told in terms of who their direct opponent to defend against is and what zones they are told to cover defensively. We look like a team that isn’t getting any coaching.
     
    Last edited: 22 Feb 2021
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  14. DubSpur

    DubSpur Steven Caulker

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    That doesn't mean you throw out every single squad player. For each position you ideally want two players competing for a start or at least a senior squad member and a young player coming through. But you also need that utility player and out of every "filler" we have in the squad Dier is the best suited to that role. Yes, get rid of the majority of fillers, Winks, Sanchez, Moura etc but keep a couple that can cover multiple roles.
     
  15. elltrev

    elltrev Didier Zokora

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    I totally agree re Son. But I don’t know whether it’s by instruction, to prioritise keeping Son as a counter attacking outlet? If not, extremely poor from him.
     
  16. DubSpur

    DubSpur Steven Caulker

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    I'd disagree on Fornal being Tanganga's player, Tanganga is in the right position, Moura should've tracked him as he was the one who moved into the box with him.
    Ndombele is also out of position, if he had've dropped 5-6 yards the gaping hole that Fornal runs into would've been covered too. Agree about Son though. Poor from him.
     
  17. Bishop

    Bishop Gudni Bergsson

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    I suppose it depends on whether you think said utility player is any good. I don't think he's up to par in any of his positions so don't see the usefulness as a squad player. Although my comment isn't purely about him, but more just the overall argument that almost all of the filler players have some sort of usefulness as squad players. Which if we were to accept then we shouldn't move any of them on and thus you end up with a squad as we currently have it.
     
  18. DubSpur

    DubSpur Steven Caulker

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    I don't think you're getting my point. We need to move on players. But you're not going to get a top class player that is going to act as a utility player waiting for injuries. Dier is about as good as you'll get. O'Shea did a similar role under Fergie. Nobody would call O'Shea a top class player but he did a job in a number of positions. Every title winning squad has a couple of players like that. They won't be starters in the big games but will come in and cover injuries etc in a number of positions.
     
  19. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Steffen Iversen

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    The fact that Son is ‘sort of’ back there tells me that he is supposed to defend against Coufal.
     
  20. Bishop

    Bishop Gudni Bergsson

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    I understand the point of squad players I just don't agree with your argument that Dier is a good squad player. O'Shea was significantly better than Dier but that's besides the point. A title winning side worries about it's backups when it gets the starters right. We don't have the starts correct right now and that should be priority.

    If selling Dier can garner some cash we should absolutly do it. In terms of quality and utility he is very easily replaced.
     
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