Squad not good enough...or unable to play a different style?

[Grays_1890]

Soucek was £19m so more than Hojdjberg
And TBH both have been great signings for their clubs

the bargain was the right back
And of comparing Stevie maybe it would be with Benrahma who cost similar money and plays the same position

I wasn't comparing PEH and Soucek, PEH proves with his early form it's not about money spent but who too. Point was 19m isn't much either and he is one of the form players in his role. Was part of my overall point that it's not what you spend it's what you spend it on.



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[Bedfordspurs]

I wasn't comparing PEH and Soucek, PEH proves with his early form it's not about money spent but who too. Point was 19m isn't much either and he is one of the form players in his role. Was part of my overall point that it's not what you spend it's what you spend it on.



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Yeah and I agree
But the value also has to be compared player but player
And there are a lot of people who have talked about soucek as though he cost a £m. The guys been class but did come with a chunky fee for West Ham

 

[Raziel]

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...

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No, player and wages spend are absolutely linked to success (Leicester are not some bargain basement shopping club despite the perception)

- What you did is pick one off transfers, I can do that, find better buys in the PL that Kane, Dele, Son, Bale, Modric?
- Every club has a good cheap pickup and smart windows, the question is total spend over multiple years years

To the second point, that is the challenge of top clubs

- Chelsea, City, United go through genuinely talented players because every game matters, there is no time/place for development
- The West Ham, Leicester, Everton's of the league can have off days, can afford to invest in a player at short term cost .. we used to be able to do that when the goal was top 6, not anymore.

Therefore the only development option we have for players like Sessegnon and Skipp is loans (something we fudged up by not doing in last 5 odd years)

 

[Grays_1890]

Yeah and I agree
But the value also has to be compared player but player
And there are a lot of people who have talked about soucek as though he cost a £m. The guys been class but did come with a chunky fee for West Ham

19m is nothing now though TBH, only 5m more than Doherty...ouch

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[Grays_1890]

No, player and wages spend are absolutely linked to success (Leicester are not some bargain basement shopping club despite the perception)

- What you did is pick one off transfers, I can do that, find better buys in the PL that Kane, Dele, Son, Bale, Modric?
- Every club has a good cheap pickup and smart windows, the question is total spend over multiple years years

To the second point, that is the challenge of top clubs

- Chelsea, City, United go through genuinely talented players because every game matters, there is no time/place for development
- The West Ham, Leicester, Everton's of the league can have off days, can afford to invest in a player at short term cost .. we used to be able to do that when the goal was top 6, not anymore.

Therefore the only development option we have for players like Sessegnon and Skipp is loans (something we fudged up by not doing in last 5 odd years)

The link between money and success works in extremes though, Man United are one of the biggest underperformers in the world in that respect, Liverpool's bet spend over the last 5/6 years is minimal because they sold at huge cost and Chelsea are adding to their billon pound debt and continue to under perform.

It's not just one offs either, look at Spurs success in the market from our record transfers, far more many duds than success but the Walkers, Rose, Dier, Alli, Toby etc largely made up our most successful period.

Emirates Marketing Project have gone back to an early player they signed and yeh at big cost but proves that coaching is also a thing in John Stones.

We do spend, spend badly in my opinion, Lamela, Stevie (Jury out), Janssen, Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier, Moura Al look have more question marks than answers despite pretty hefty fees...

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[Finney Is Back]

Since building the stadium Arsenal have been in a steady decline and not won anything either, if we've fudged it up they certainly did.

Think they’ve won 3 FA Cups since being at the Emirates haven’t they?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

19m is nothing now though TBH, only 5m more than Doherty...ouch

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£19m to West Ham is a lot to money
I think their 3rd highest fee
But as he has been great... it’s a bargain

 

[Finney Is Back]

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...



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For one off players that is true.... However go to almost any league in almost any year and the teams that win the big competitions are the ones with the biggest transfer spend and wage bill.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The link between money and success works in extremes though, Man United are one of the biggest underperformers in the world in that respect, Liverpool's bet spend over the last 5/6 years is minimal because they sold at huge cost and Chelsea are adding to their billon pound debt and continue to under perform.

It's not just one offs either, look at Spurs success in the market from our record transfers, far more many duds than success but the Walkers, Rose, Dier, Alli, Toby etc largely made up our most successful period.

Emirates Marketing Project have gone back to an early player they signed and yeh at big cost but proves that coaching is also a thing in John Stones.

We do spend, spend badly in my opinion, Lamela, Stevie (Jury out), Janssen, Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier, Moura Al look have more question marks than answers despite pretty hefty fees...

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You could do that (the spend badly thing) at just about any club. That is only 7 players over what?.... about 12 transfer windows? (And I think some of those are questionable to say bad buys as well)

 

[billyiddo]

Premier League does skew that though as there are so many top teams spending big money on wages and transfers that there are always teams spending big who miss out - short term nature also means these clubs are always in a state of flux.

sometimes that times well with a lesser team or two ouperforming their spend and finishing close to the top - but all things being equal money = success

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You could do that (the spend badly thing) at just about any club. That is only 7 players over what?.... about 12 transfer windows? (And I think some of those are questionable to say bad buys as well)

I agree
It’s an easy thing and there are so many variables
I’d argue that Keita has been a massive failure at pool... but a CL and league win would say otherwise I guess (I don’t know for sure he was involved in the final)

 

[Grays_1890]

You could do that (the spend badly thing) at just about any club. That is only 7 players over what?.... about 12 transfer windows? (And I think some of those are questionable to say bad buys as well)

Of course and that's what I mean, unless you are Emirates Marketing Project where you can rebuy a whole team because the first fails you have to accept that some will fail and some won't, or improve the recruitment orni.prove what you buy but I argue that spending isn't the definitive answer unless you are City or Chelsea....and we are not.

Liverpool and Leics proving that you can buy well, yes Leics have started to spend more but it's come after a period of planning and recouping on Kanye, Drinkwater and Chilwell. Again everyone has to buy into to it though, maybe because of their status everyone is more patient, maybe that's the answer because 2m for Vardy would be laughed at and sneared at Spurs considering no striker is given a chance here.

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[Baleforce]

Think they’ve won 3 FA Cups since being at the Emirates haven’t they?

so like I said, they've won nothing

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of course and that's what I mean, unless you are Emirates Marketing Project where you can rebuy a whole team because the first fails you have to accept that some will fail and some won't, or improve the recruitment orni.prove what you buy but I argue that spending isn't the definitive answer unless you are City or Chelsea....and we are not.

Liverpool and Leics proving that you can buy well, yes Leics have started to spend more but it's come after a period of planning and recouping on Kanye, Drinkwater and Chilwell. Again everyone has to buy into to it though, maybe because of their status everyone is more patient, maybe that's the answer because 2m for Vardy would be laughed at and sneared at Spurs considering no striker is given a chance here.

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I completely refute that £2 million for Vardy would be laughed at and sneered at here at Spurs. That is a very strange opinion indeed.

I remember us signing (for example) Rose, Lennon, Dier, Dele, Trippier all for small fees. No sneering at all took place.

 

[Finney Is Back]

so like I said, they've won nothing

Strange?!?..... Take our FA Cups away and we are a very, very unsuccessful club.

 

[Baleforce]

Strange?!?..... Take our FA Cups away and we are a very, very unsuccessful club.

Tell me about it.

 

[Grays_1890]

I completely refute that £2 million for Vardy would be laughed at and sneered at here at Spurs. That is a very strange opinion indeed.

I remember us signing (for example) Rose, Lennon, Dier, Dele, Trippier all for small fees. No sneering at all took place.

Not weird at all, we have had people turn their nose up at many a signing especially strikers, had we signed a Fleetwood Town striker I'm am certain in some quarters it would be classed a cheap Levy signing.

People tried to call Grealish a cheap option when we went for him and it looked like we were getting him, now it's used as a stick to beat Levy that we missed out (check old threads).

We have people saying about Vinny that he is crap and snear at the loan despite one league start.

Many laughed and were horrified at idea of Jonny Evans for 3.5m would have been amazing for us.



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[Finney Is Back]

Not weird at all, we have had people turn their nose up at many a signing especially strikers, had we signed a Fleetwood Town striker I'm am certain in some quarters it would be classed a cheap Levy signing.

People tried to call Grealish a cheap option when we went for him and it looked like we were getting him, now it's used as a stick to beat Levy that we missed out (check old threads).

We have people saying about Vinny that he is crap and snear at the loan despite one league start.

Many laughed and were horrified at idea of Jonny Evans for 3.5m would have been amazing for us.



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When we signed Dave McEwan from Dulwich Hamlet nobody batted an eyelid.

You have to realise that there are always idiots in every walk of life. With Grealish, I think a majority of Spurs fans would've been very happy to bring in a very promising, young, English player from the Championship who the manager very much wanted.

If I remember back to the time we wanted Grealish, I think it was mainly Gutter Boy (who was always a bit weird when it came to our transfers) who was against it.... perhaps Scara as well I can't remember?... I never take anything he says seriously anyway... Well other than the things he says about Liverpool of course!

 

[parklane1]

The truth is 99% if not all transfer are a risk, history shows us that not all big players who have cost money are a hit at every club they sign for, and the more money you spend the bigger risk you take. Fans do not help at times because they want BIG name players and a lot of fans turn their noses up at a lot of punts at less money.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The truth is 99% if not all transfer are a risk, history shows us that not all big players who have cost money are a hit at every club they sign for, and the more money you spend the bigger risk you take. Fans do not help at times because they want BIG name players and a lot of fans turn their noses up at a lot of punts at less money.

Fans do not matter one iota. So what if Billy No Mates turns his nose up?