Riyad Mahrez

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think it folly to think this way. Both are top managers and I am sure they will learn, even though it might take them a bit longer.

They have shown no sign of it at all. So why assume they will?

Wenger has spent 20 years banging the same drum, even though for at least 10 years the same routine has been failing him.

Klopp is the same, refuses to address his teams need to defend better. Until he does Liverpool will always flatter to deceive.

 

[alekaras]

They have shown no sign of it at all. So why assume they will?

Wenger has spent 20 years banging the same drum, even though for at least 10 years the same routine has been failing him.

Klopp is the same, refuses to address his teams need to defend better. Until he does Liverpool will always flatter to deceive.

We shall see about Klopp. I think you may see a different Liverpool side than what you expect this season. I'm not saying the addition of VvD will make a huge difference, but even if it improves them marginally in defense, they will win games that they would have otherwise drawn. I don't think it will be as easy to catch them. Chelski or Manure I see us more likely to reel in than Lollerpool.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The same Liverpool that are directly above us by 3 points?

I dont see them as more challenging than Utd or Chelsea, personally.

I also dont see VVD making too big an impact, no one player can when the whole team doesnt do defending.

And even if he does, its a marginal gain. Not a significant one.

Klopp, like Wenger, persistently makes the same mistakes*. Ive seen nothing to change my view that ultimately those mistakes are what will limit each teams progress.



*funnily enough they make basically the same mistakes as well!

 

[milo]

The same Liverpool that are directly above us by 3 points?

I dont see them as more challenging than Utd or Chelsea, personally.

I also dont see VVD making too big an impact, no one player can when the whole team doesnt do defending.

And even if he does, its a marginal gain. Not a significant one.

Klopp, like Wenger, persistently makes the same mistakes*. Ive seen nothing to change my view that ultimately those mistakes are what will limit each teams progress.



*funnily enough they make basically the same mistakes as well!

I agree. Liverpool's defence is as bad now as when he arrived. If he was half as good a coach as we are told, he would have been able been able to do more with what he had. People are also forgetting that VVD has not been in good form this season.

 

[Pirate55]

The same Liverpool that are directly above us by 3 points?

I dont see them as more challenging than Utd or Chelsea, personally.

I also dont see VVD making too big an impact, no one player can when the whole team doesnt do defending.

And even if he does, its a marginal gain. Not a significant one.

Klopp, like Wenger, persistently makes the same mistakes*. Ive seen nothing to change my view that ultimately those mistakes are what will limit each teams progress.



*funnily enough they make basically the same mistakes as well!

and what pray are these mistakes that Klopp and Wenger supposedly persistently make?

 

[StephenH]

Coughs!!
Couldn't organise a defence if thier lives depended on it? ........

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

and what pray are these mistakes that Klopp and Wenger supposedly persistently make?

Never recognise that defence is a team game.

Never buy the appropriate balance of defensive/offensive players.

Always buy attacking players, but never the striker they need.

Essentially ignore the spine of the side.

Its all fairly well trodden...

 

[Pirate55]

Never recognise that defence is a team game.

Never buy the appropriate balance of defensive/offensive players.

Always buy attacking players, but never the striker they need.

Essentially ignore the spine of the side.

Its all fairly well trodden...

And exactly how many trophies have these two managers won making these same supposed mistakes?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And exactly how many trophies have these two managers won making these same supposed mistakes?

Well Plopp did it at one side but hasnt replicated that elsewhere

Wenger was amazing when he started at Arsenal but the club now are mess it seems and he has a big part to play in that, however he has won the last couple of FA cups and IMO they will win the league cup as the seem to be winning the lesser trophies year on year to keep him there

 

[Pirate55]

Well Plopp did it at one side but hasnt replicated that elsewhere

Wenger was amazing when he started at Arsenal but the club now are mess it seems and he has a big part to play in that, however he has won the last couple of FA cups and IMO they will win the league cup as the seem to be winning the lesser trophies year on year to keep him there

And yet "they both persistently keep making these same basic mistakes?" Don't make me laugh.

 

[90291Spur]

Well Plopp did it at one side but hasnt replicated that elsewhere

Wenger was amazing when he started at Arsenal but the club now are mess it seems and he has a big part to play in that, however he has won the last couple of FA cups and IMO they will win the league cup as the seem to be winning the lesser trophies year on year to keep him there

From Premier League, to Fourth place trophy, to FA Cup, to Carabao Cup. What's next Johnstone's Paint Trophy?

 

[billyiddo]

And yet "they both persistently keep making these same basic mistakes?" Don't make me laugh.

Which bit do you disagree with exactly?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And yet "they both persistently keep making these same basic mistakes?" Don't make me laugh.

Well as most people keep on saying they persistently avoid addressing the issues in their teams despite spending more money than most and paying mega wages

Hence why their never competitive in the big competitions

 

[scaramanga]

Well Plopp did it at one side but hasnt replicated that elsewhere

Wenger was amazing when he started at Arsenal but the club now are mess it seems and he has a big part to play in that, however he has won the last couple of FA cups and IMO they will win the league cup as the seem to be winning the lesser trophies year on year to keep him there

I don't think Wenger was ever all that great, he was just ahead of the English game.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't think Wenger was ever all that great, he was just ahead of the English game.

Tactically I have never really been particularly impressed. What Wenger had when he went to Arsenal however was the most developed scouting network in the World. Apparently there was barely a young, promising player anywhere that Wenger did not have reasonably encyclopedic knowledge of. Arsenal were able to add good, young players for excellent prices. They were also competing on pretty much an even footing financially with any club back when he first arrived.

 

[Alaric]

Tactically I have never really been particularly impressed. What Wenger had when he went to Arsenal however was the most developed scouting network in the World. Apparently there was barely a young, promising player anywhere that Wenger did not have reasonably encyclopedic knowledge of. Arsenal were able to add good, young players for excellent prices. They were also competing on pretty much an even footing financially with any club back when he first arrived.

Agreed, he had coached the French under 21 team I think, so he knew the potential of the likes of Viera and Henry. He also had a solid back 5 in place when arrived.

 

[scaramanga]

Tactically I have never really been particularly impressed. What Wenger had when he went to Arsenal however was the most developed scouting network in the World. Apparently there was barely a young, promising player anywhere that Wenger did not have reasonably encyclopedic knowledge of. Arsenal were able to add good, young players for excellent prices. They were also competing on pretty much an even footing financially with any club back when he first arrived.

In the same year they bought Terry Henry, Liverpool bought Heskey, and we bought the Ginger Pele.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

And exactly how many trophies have these two managers won making these same supposed mistakes?

Klopp had a freak success in the Bundesliga, which was short lived and soon enough normal service was resumed. That was 5-6 years ago now, since when he has done nothing of real note.

Wenger has won 3 FA cups in the last 5 years. A fair achievement, but it is a domestic cup in which the other major teams prioritise bigger competitions. Also in which luck plays a big part. So Im not sure I see it as equivalent to, say, a CL win. Aside from those FA cups, the last major trophy they won was the league in 2003/04.

Its fair to say Arsenal have gone steadily downhill over many years now. Just as its fair to say Klopp hasnt made Liverpool any better. In fact I believe Rodgers record just edges Klopps at this point.

So what is your point exactly? Some previous success negates the blindingly obvious now?

 

[the dza]

Re. Wenger, he also used to build a different type of team. He placed much more emphasis on pace and athleticism, and most of the top teams in English football through the Premier League era have had this. They used to be big, nasty bastards (remember how many red cards they used to get?) with some technically excellent players, they don't have that edge anymore nor the real athletic players in their ranks.

Wenger moved away from what gave him success in the first place imo. You look at peak Wenger, their unbeaten league season -- that team had basically one poncey player in Pires. Henry was a beast physically. Bergkamp was technically brilliant but had a nasty streak. Ljunberg was a workhorse who could play. The rest were all excellent players and athletes (Lauren, Toure, Quntball, Cole, Gilberto, Vieira). Lehman was a nutcase in goal (hated that qunt).

He seems to have lost his marbles over the past few years, but he used to know what it took to win the title.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I dont know what changed.

He inherited the best defence in the country. Then he managed to rebuild it, Campbell, Toure, Cole, Lehman - was an excellent back line for a while.

He had Vieira as a beast in midfield, when he went Gilberto did a very good, and understated job.

Clearly it wasnt the case that he inherited a spine and could never replicate it, because once he actually did.

Same as he lost Anelka, and got Henry.

These days? There really is no spine. They dont have a top quality centre forward, there is no beast in midfield, and the back line is weak.

And its been that way for years, with Wenger ignoring the most obvious deficiencies window after window...

Ive a few Gooner mates, all of them love Wenger for what he achieved with them in the glory days but are deeply, deeply frustrated with him for exactly this reason. They all know what they need, and that he refuses to address it baffles them.