Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[LutonSpurs]

If that's the case then we can vote the Conservatives out in a few years.

We can't vote the EU out other than in the way we did.

Voting the EU out was a bad idea. Not closely aligning ourselves is also a bad idea. The short to mid term harm to our economy is not acceptable to most people because they are not rich.

And we both know that whoever is in charge, the beast that the EU is probably won't let us be better off as they need that to be the case.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Voting for MEPs has little to no effect.

I can and have sat for a meal with the local MP from one.of our factories and she successfully went to bat and lobbied DEFRA on our behalf, making changes that kept our industry viable. That's not possible with MEPs. You can't change EU regulations by making them care about 100 jobs in one constituency.

Yes because the EU does not affect much of day to day UK life. Our parliament is King. You could absolutely lobby MEPs and then you could affect regulations that often have a global reach. And the UK did...we ran pharmaceutical regulations for the EU. Globally there only EU and US regulations that are followed. We also ran banking regulations, that the world followed. So on a macro level you would speak to a Member of the UK parliament because they control most local issues. But via the EU we had input into global standards. In the future, we'll just follow US and EU protocol without a say.

 

[Grays_1890]

I honestly find it staggering that anyone would want to shut down debate (in a thread about politics) on the most consequential event that has happened to the Uk since the war. And actually, it hasn't even happened yet. I understand not wanting to rehash the referendum arguments. I get that, they have been done to death, but let's not pretend it isn't happening ffs. Stating that is a fait accompli and there is no need to discuss it is beyond bizarre IMO.

Agree 100%

But the referencing of Brexit every post by some and in terms that don't exist is just silly.

Every day without fail one poster says the government will be forgiven a multitude of sins because of Brexit which is childish as the government gets bashed up on here everyday by everyone and when they are not no one references Brexit.

Just comes across a bit juvenile

 

[Grays_1890]

Yes because the EU does not affect much of day to day UK life. Our parliament is King..

Then why the tears in your cornflakes?

 

[scaramanga]

C’mon Scara, you know full well just how much sway your vote has in either of those administrations.

My vote and those of my employees matter enough for my MP to go out of their way and spend days working for us.

There's no incentive for MEPs to do that.

 

[scaramanga]

Voting the EU out was a bad idea. Not closely aligning ourselves is also a bad idea. The short to mid term harm to our economy is not acceptable to most people because they are not rich.

And we both know that whoever is in charge, the hunk of burning love that the EU is probably won't let us be better off as they need that to be the case.

I can't sell to two of the largest markets in my industry (Middle East and USA) because of regulations the EU insists I apply to products that will never be sold in the EU.

Regulations designed purely so that more efficient markets can't undercut their own bloated ones.

If that's replicated over even a tiny part of our economy (the 86% of it that doesn't trade with the EU) then there's a lot of up side.

 

[Baleforce]

My vote and those of my employees matter enough for my MP to go out of their way and spend days working for us.

There's no incentive for MEPs to do that.

Have you spoken to your MEP, the incentives are the same, improve people’s lives, it’s just the scale that’s different.

 

[Baleforce]

I can't sell to two of the largest markets in my industry (Middle East and USA) because of regulations the EU insists I apply to products that will never be sold in the EU.

Regulations designed purely so that more efficient markets can't undercut their own bloated ones.

If that's replicated over even a tiny part of our economy (the 86% of it that doesn't trade with the EU) then there's a lot of up side.

Those regulations are there for a reason though right?

Does it not add value to your product?

 

[scaramanga]

Yes because the EU does not affect much of day to day UK life. Our parliament is King. You could absolutely lobby MEPs and then you could affect regulations that often have a global reach. And the UK did...we ran pharmaceutical regulations for the EU. Globally there only EU and US regulations that are followed. We also ran banking regulations, that the world followed. So on a macro level you would speak to a Member of the UK parliament because they control most local issues. But via the EU we had input into global standards. In the future, we'll just follow US and EU protocol without a say.

That's how it's supposed to be. You follow the standard for the market you're selling into - that happens all the time in almost every industry.

It's only the EU that insists we apply their regulations to the products we sell to other markets.

 

[scaramanga]

Have you spoken to your MEP, the incentives are the same, improve people’s lives, it’s just the scale that’s different.

I didn't, but our lawyers did whilst the EU were drafting the initial legislation.

We were told there was nothing he could do to "stop the boulder running down the hill" and that we'd be better off fighting it on the domestic front.

He was right on both.

 

[scaramanga]

Those regulations are there for a reason though right?

Does it not add value to your product?

Nope, nothing whatsoever, just cost.

 

[Baleforce]

Nope, nothing whatsoever, just cost.

You obviously know your business, and I don’t, but that doesn’t sound plausible, there must be logic behind the regulation or it wouldn’t be there.

 

[SpurMeUp]

That's how it's supposed to be. You follow the standard for the market you're selling into - that happens all the time in almost every industry.

It's only the EU that insists we apply their regulations to the products we sell to other markets.

Working in a company that exports stuff guess you know. What EU law is this? Do you have a link?

 

[scaramanga]

You obviously know your business, and I don’t, but that doesn’t sound plausible, there must be logic behind the regulation or it wouldn’t be there.

Dragging more efficient businesses (such as mine and those outside the EU) down to the level of French and Spanish businesses is my best guess.

Add to that environmental regs the UK govt doesn't want, directives such as REACH, etc. Which, in my experience, do nothing to protect people but do a great job of restricting inbound parts early in the process - EU businesses don't traditionally import these parts so it's an easy directive for them to pass.

 

[scaramanga]

Working in a company that exports stuff guess you know. What EU law is this? Do you have a link?

Not without being too specific about what I do.

But other examples such as REACH are out there.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Not without being too specific about what I do.

But other examples such as REACH are out there.

Is REACH related to not polluting the planet or people? If so you could possibly see some greater good there no?

 

[Baleforce]

Dragging more efficient businesses (such as mine and those outside the EU) down to the level of French and Spanish businesses is my best guess.

Add to that environmental regs the UK govt doesn't want, directives such as REACH, etc. Which, in my experience, do nothing to protect people but do a great job of restricting inbound parts early in the process - EU businesses don't traditionally import these parts so it's an easy directive for them to pass.

The first bit sounds tin foil hat.

We're long past the point of environmental regulations being opt in, the house is on fire and we need to put it out.

I admit to knowing next to nothing about REACH, but are we not just co-opting the current regs to remain in place as they are?

 

[scaramanga]

Is REACH related to not polluting the planet or people? If so you could possibly see some greater good there no?

It applies fully up stream to any items imported - even if they are inert and safe at the stage they're imported.

This is nothing short of overreach from the EU, following the usual socialist line of government knows best and people shouldn't have the right to choose.

 

[scaramanga]

The first bit sounds tin foil hat.

We're long past the point of environmental regulations being opt in, the house is on fire and we need to put it out.

I admit to knowing next to nothing about REACH, but are we not just co-opting the current regs to remain in place as they are?

Sort of. They've been adopted for speed and simplicity but I'm told the intent is to tailor them to suit us, not the EU.

 

[scaramanga]

Is REACH related to not polluting the planet or people? If so you could possibly see some greater good there no?

Some of it is.

Some of it is about substances that are dangerous in one form when used but not further down the chain or in the life of the product.

There are hugely inferior alternatives available, but that doesn't matter to the inferior EU market. The UK is trying to follow RoW standards under EU restrictions and it simply doesn't work. As with other legislation, a cynic might think it's the EU dragging us down to their level.