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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    I put up in a post the other day who i have voted. Twice labour, twice ukip, twice tory and twice destroyed my ballot. Will go labour next time as long as they dont try to keep us in the EU. I support no one but Tottenham and my family.
     
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  2. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Les Howe Staff Member

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    I knew exactly what you meant.

    I think it is interesting that you took my "second sentence" in such a fashion. That is on you. I was simply stating something I believe. I further thought -in the interests of general disclosure, albeit not requested- that I would share a little about my political beliefs. Again, if you feel it was aimed at you then that is yours to own my friend.

    What I DO wish you'd own is the original statement. I think we can both safely say it was -at best- a smug way of suggesting you have a more mature viewpoint that the person you were responding to. It was, to my eye, a cheap shot. I wish you could own it. Again, if I misunderstood your point -if, indeed, you wanted to make the point you ended up making, then why not make it at the time?
     
  3. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    No wonder she still looks petrified, as Tikhanovskaya must know that this is quite likely to be happening to her friends and relatives back in Belarus right now. Shocking to think this is occurring on European soil in this day and age.





     
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  4. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    So even now that I've clarified the relatively innocuous nature of my original post, you still feel that it merited a response like this? Ok.

    Despite the claim you make in your second post, I don't believe you interpreted me correctly at all (which, let me add, wouldn't be the first time). The issue of having a tribal, football-supporter approach to politics is something that has been discussed many, many times in this thread by posters on all sides of the debate. Almost all, as per my memory of those discussions, share something akin to my feelings on it. Never once, as I recall, has it prompted from anyone a response anything like the one you just exhibited. Even the person I aimed the comment at didn't respond in that way and, I assure you, he knew exactly what I meant. So you are correct on one thing - I do consider my viewpoint, on that particular issue, as being 'more mature' than the person the comment was made to. No issue at all with 'owning' that. More to the point though, I don't think it's an offensive, or even particularly controversial viewpoint to hold - as evidenced by the previous widespread acceptance of it in this very thread, and despite your subsequent attempts to dress it up as such.

    That's in sharp contrast to your comment above which, quite apart from being disproportionate to an absolutely staggering degree, was deeply offensive. And also personal.

    @DTA, @AuroRaman @Mikey10, curious to know whether the above comment featured in your thought process in terms of 'liking' of the original post?

    I enjoy debating in these threads, and I've had my fair share of stiff exchanges over the years. I don't mind it getting a little heated, and I don't mind being in the minority - as I often am. I'll put my viewpoint forward regardless. There are posters I like, plenty I respect and there are a few I have little time for - but I'm sure the feeling is mutual, and I'm sure the same goes for most people.

    What I don't ever recall experiencing before, though, is the level of clearly personal animosity that is spilling off the posts (yes, posts - this isn't the first) that you aim in my direction. This one was absolutely bang out of order and totally uncalled for. I gave you an opportunity to de-escalate it. Rather than do that, you've doubled down, on what I still believe was your initial misunderstanding. Perhaps the apparent validation of others encouraged you to that stance.

    So I'll be bowing out of things here. You're clearly a very angry man - go and aim your barely-concealed hatred at scara. He's got a thicker skin than me.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  5. Rorschach

    Rorschach Garth Crooks

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    That's quite disturbing.
     
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  6. AuroRaman

    AuroRaman Milija Aleksic

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    @Parklaner81 I didn’t read the part you highlighted in Steff’s post as a direct dig at you, more a generalised comment.
     
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  7. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    Appreciate your clarification. However, if it had been made in response to a specific comment you made (rather than you reading it as a 3rd party), you might well have a different perspective.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  8. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Dean Austin

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    No, but if I did I would not waste my time on lost causes, such as yourself.
     
  9. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Dean Austin

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    Isn't it a recurrent thing that those of the right constantly accuse those on the left of being ideological. "oh you are an extremist and you are too dogmatic, but not me." This person supports right wing talking points at every opportunity, repeats Murdoch press reports as gospel and votes Tory (or their proxies) in every election, but don't label them as ideological. Who do they think they are kidding? :confused::confused::confused::confused:
     
  10. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Dean Austin

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    You said that you were voting Labour last time, and I rightly said that there would be no way that would happen and it didn't. I like you though, your heart is in the right place and you make me laugh.
     
  11. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    Because corbyn back tracked on coming out of the EU and talked about another referendum. Someone who has hated the EU as long as me, it hurt when he started talking like that.

    I have voted labour before and if we leave the evil EU and they dont try and take us back in the evil EU then i will. The is nothing for me with the conservatives and apart from liking criminal travellers labour ticks all the boxes for me.
     
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  12. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Pedro Mendes

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    Ok Mr Schadenfreude :)
     
  13. DTA

    DTA Terry Fenwick

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    I was more 'liking' the follwing part of the post. Which is close to my political thinking.

     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  14. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Les Howe Staff Member

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    I re-read this post a few times, simply because I could n to quite understand where your egregious offence was being taken.

    I think you have taken what I wrote as me suggesting that YOU, Parklaner81, are "a separatist, selfish and unempathetic human being". I presume you have taken that from my second response where I stated I was saying something that "I believe"...

    It was absolutely not personally aimed at you. It was a general comment. However as I always say to others, if that was unclear, then it was my responsibility to make sure it was clear.
    So I apologize to you if you felt that was a personal arrow. It wasn't.
    It was again, as stated here, a general comment.
    And the nature of that general comment is that I believe exactly what I said. I believe it is possible to have beliefs which are inclusive of ALL in society (from tories to labour to whoever) and not be a seperatist, selfish and unempathetic human being (i.e. someone who believes in tribalism beyond anything and shutting out anyone who does not agree with them).
    Hopefully that explains it a little more clearly.

    I feel I understood clearly what you were saying -that you felt the post was following their political convictions blindly and with the sort of loyal fervor that football supporters (such as ourselves) display, where regardless of poor decisions or bricky actions we continue to scream and sing and roar our support. I got it. I just thought it was really cheap to suggest that someone's political beliefs were "immature" or even possibly blind and naive in that sense. Still, you owned it so we agree to disagree I suppose.

    Sorry to say I am not a "very angry man" mate, I do enjoy a debate and will always try to clearly articulate what I am thinking. if I somehow failed to do that here, again, apologies for any personal "attack" you might've interpreted.

    A final thought though. You pondered whether the "apparent validation of others" encouraged me to respond further? Nothing could be further from the truth. If I allowed the thoughts of others* to actively drive my opinions, it would suggest I don't hold a true viewpoint of my own. So rest-assured, that is not the case.

    *to be clear, I mean others on this forum. Rorschasch's post below made me realize I had again perhaps not been quite articulate enough.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  15. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Dean Austin

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    He is free to say whatever he likes about others, but don't dare criticize him. Me, Never complain, never explain.
     
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  16. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Les Howe Staff Member

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    It is just a shame when things get misinterpreted. That's life though. I have expressed my response, and as such, that is that from may perspective. If he doesn't wish to take it on, then so be it.
     
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  17. Rorschach

    Rorschach Garth Crooks

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    Sorry - chopped your post down a bit @thfcsteff but this is an interesting point and worthy of a thread on it's own maybe.

    How is one's opinion formed? And the answer unequivocally is that the viewpoints/opinions of others that we have decided to trust contribute predominately to one's own outlook on most things, and certainly more than any specific analysis/research that you could do yourself. How could you research the 1000's of facts bombarding you each day. You can't frankly. And even that research may be based another's observations. You are what you eat, so to speak, and the great ongoing social media experiment we are all part of to one degree or another is clear proof of this. Yes, people are inclined to think one way or another, to either fairness or hierarchy, and this will start you down the path. But after that is really is who you trust that shapes your outlook. All IMO of course.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  18. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Les Howe Staff Member

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    A very fair point, and yes, a worthy discussion for the future in it's own I'd agree.

    I think, once again, I am guilty of not clearly articulating myself. The comment was meant specifically for forums such as this one, where I genuinely don't feel that my viewpoint is shaped by the "approval" (or not) of others contributing. So again, it was very specific to this type of medium.

    On a wider point, I'd debate that we have 1000s of facts bombarding us. Indeed, I'd suggest that stripping that number down to the three or four which are at the core of most world events would be a great step forth.
     
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  19. Rorschach

    Rorschach Garth Crooks

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    That's fair.

    The debate that happens on this forum, outside of football discussion, probably does not sway too many minds I would think, but it has some value IMO. It pushes alternative opinions into the information ecosystems we all inhabit in a less aggressive way (mostly). How we react to those alternative opinions, to consider them or discard them immediately is often based on past contributions, or in other words the trust gained over an extended period. That's how I view it anyway.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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  20. Rorschach

    Rorschach Garth Crooks

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    This is going to be an ongoing problem. The historical arbiters of truth, science/academia/MSM, are no longer trusted equally by both sides, in the US in particular. And there are now clearly delineated sides. The venn diagram of shared opinions no longer overlaps and there is no gravity to pull them back together again. This is a problem of this age that I can't see a solution for.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2020
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