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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    Yeah yeah we know, It's just a freak coincidence on the eve of Brexit, as is Dyson moving, Sony, finance jobs etc.

    It is a fact of life that we can lower VAT rates now to 15% and save 5% - now within the EU. You stated this above, I learnt this from you, so its not like you don't understand it. Why aren't we lowering VAT now then? We are free to, why don't we? Why haven't we done it previously? Can you hand on heart say that leaving the EU will lead to lower VAT, and that is the benifit of Brexit, when we could do it now?

    At what point do you say, okay, the major oppotunities I mentioned for services and tourism from Brexit, I can't actually come up with any?
     
    Last edited: 20 Feb 2019
  2. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    You know that we the people own the Royal Bank of Scotland, and parts of other banks, after the government bailed them out? How did they do this while in the EU?

    Please explain this https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jan/21/car-industry-french-government-fears To me it looks like the French government bailed out both Peugot and Renult while they were part of the EU. Cheeky sods!

    I admire your perseverence, and I know you just think I'm wrong, and its project this and that. You think Brexit offers something, but take a step back, look at the evidence, maybe it does not? If Brexit does offer something, you must be able to outline it.
     
    Last edited: 20 Feb 2019
    Baleforce likes this.
  3. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    What is extreme about a mixed economy, with utilities in public ownership, increased workers rights and funded education for youngsters? None of these policies are outside of the mainstream in comparable western democracies.

    That this is painted as extreme just goes to show how far to the right most of the media are imo. I don't remember a single "extreme" policy in the last Labour Party manifesto.
     
  4. ShipOfTheseus

    ShipOfTheseus Roman Pavlyuchenko

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    It’s not really about policy, it’s about positions, language and principles. Policies are a very small component of retail politics.
     
  5. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    And yet for 30 odd years we've been pretty good at it. We have great engineering skills, specialist F1 teams, sports car teams, mass production. It has worked well. So much so that 2016 was the most successful year to date for UK automotive industry (measured by output). So I don't agree. If it had been so woeful why would these companies have stayed here? It's not like our wages are cheaper than elesewhere.

    Most UK manufactured cars are exported, helping our trade deficit, and the industry has provided significant UK jobs. For every 1 job in the car plant they say there are 4 other jobs created in related industries.
     
  6. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    That's why I think Corbyn was elected by members in the first place (the same members who would have elected David Miliband if there was OMOV for that leadership election). Based on his principles/language/positions, he was trusted to actually attempt to deliver popular policies, such as renationalisation. He believes in it.

    And it's the policies that are the motivation for the media to attack Corbyn from day 1.
     
    Gilzeantoscore likes this.
  7. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    I know you were. It may seem odd because I am a little more to the right, but I am going to vote Corbyn because he is so different and of course anti the EU. Farage is right about the EU and it is an important thing to be right on but I am looking for more.
     
    Craig_J likes this.
  8. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    What about a Gay Muslim? If you were a cross dressing gay Muslim would you wear a hijab?
     
  9. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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  10. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    That is the problem with Corbyn. It is his histroy, what he represents to the establisment, and how he leads his party...the reality of his policies will never get a fair viewing because of him. Therein is the problem unfortunately. A shame because at this moment in time, the country desperately needs a statemans-like leader. The door is open for Labour.
     
  11. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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  12. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Mitchell Thomas

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    Tell me, what is extreme about taking rail and water back into public control? What is extreme about funding public health and education properly? What is extreme about treating people on the breadline with a bit more empathy?
     
  13. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    You could well be right. When he first came along in the leadership race, I saw him as a bit of a reset button, I never really envisaged that he would become PM. Just take the party in a different direction and hand off to someone else. And then it turned out that Labour made some gains in 2017 and, in reality, aren't that far off from getting into government (note, I don't say with a majority).

    But again, the policies and potential legislation that'd come out of a Corbyn government aren't extreme. It's just shrill nonsense to suggest otherwise.
     
  14. ringo

    ringo Tim Sherwood

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    i think I've missed a trick in my assessment of the way Brexit is panning out. i.e Article 50 extension vs No Deal.
    Maybe the actual end objective of the ERG, or big money behind Leave is not Brexit per se - but the break up of the EU.
    Maybe what we are in the middle of is an existential struggle for the survival of the EU. With the calculation that No Deal will at very least destabilise EU. Cause some countries to break ranks. Which is possibly in the interests of Russia, the US, and China. Or is that reading too much into it all.
     
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  15. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    It is certainly an objective of Russia to disrupt the stability and cohesion of the EU project. Most of the brexiters on this thread are actually Russian bots.
     
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  16. ringo

    ringo Tim Sherwood

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    Я с тобой товарищ.
     
  17. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    охуити́тельно
     
  18. StephenH

    StephenH David Ginola

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    With a proper leader and a more attractive party they great!
    Under a Corbyn lead party its pointless!
     
    Last edited: 20 Feb 2019
  19. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    Right. So not extreme then.
     
  20. StephenH

    StephenH David Ginola

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    He is different but I don’t think being a poor leader is going to hack it!
     

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