Nuno Espírito Santo - Sacked

[parklane1]

No wonder some fans do not know what is going on at times, their heads are full of the XG rubbish and the different way some explain it usually to fit their narrative.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No wonder some fans do not know what is going on at times, their heads are full of the XG rubbish and the different way some explain it usually to fit their narrative.

The problem with xg is like so many stats…. They can be used to spin a story
I prefer goal for, and against, ideally supplement by shots in target and against. Their factual elements that don’t need a “model” for

 

[thfcsteff]

That’s what I’m saying and I agree with most of your recent posts on this. It’s natural for us to speculate on the future and I know you’re only as good as your last game blah blah blah but I really feel Nuno got a couple of results we didn’t expect and then whilst I think he made a mistake with the way he used Winks and Dele with 11 against 11 we were still in the match with chance to make game changing subs. Taking a 0-0 would have been a good result in context for what we had on the board already, the disruption to our team and the in game changes that meant we had to use our 5th and 6th choice centre backs.
I was underwhelmed by the appointment and I think our transfer window didn’t address our total reliance on Son and a potentially demotivated Kane. But as at now Nuno has already shown he is a competent coach and that in turn gives some of the ‘deadwood’ to prove themselves too. Then we have new signings to integrate and a couple of attacking players that have yet to start a Prem game. My expectations are tempered by the window, so want to see an improvement on last season and Europa league football should be the minimum requirement.
The style of football thing is subjective and @DubaiSpur gave down good examples of how style can be subjective and sometimes linked to the relationship with the manager.
I’m not saying Nuno will be a success or will not make is a front foot team again, but he deserves the time to try and personally if we are winning more than half the games we play I’m agnostic to the style.
Usually when the team has been at a low ebb, the following manager has been given more time as expectations have lessened. Considering he’s following Mourinho and how we were performing at the end of last season I surprised by some of the early judgment, the Poch era may have raised expectations to an unrealistic level until we are in a position to spend the stadium gains imo.

Agree with this all the way.

It is clear why he wanted Traore and clear why I believe we will be back in for him this January. Not that I am necessary a fan...

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm one of these people! Quite frankly, unless our recent performances got us Champions League, which over the course of a season, I'd find absolutely staggering, it wouldn't take anything from the fact that I take no pleasure in watching our games. If people enjoy that kind of football or if they think 1-0 wins are the epitome of football - fair enough. To each his own. All I'm saying is a) despite the results, Ardiles' Spurs were more enjoyable and b) he still has plenty of time to turn things around.

I don't think venting your feelings on a supporters' message board or expressing their doubts on recent performances regardless of results should be considered as a lack of loyalty. I really wish him all the best... but I still couldn't wait for our last three games to end.

I absolutely see your point, and you've captured my thoughts with regards to Captain Previous and last season perfectly...it is still too early for me to feel bad about Nuno, ands I still want to see what he can do with he has a full deck of cards to play with...

 

[metalgear]

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/09/...me-spurs-fans-react-to-cursed-lamela-footage/

Doing well, enjoying himself... Easier league? Less pressure to perform? I think we have cohesion problems. Our boys may look like they are having fun in the corporate pics, but they're not playing for each other, encouraging and pushing each other like a real team should.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[glasgowspur]

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/09/...me-spurs-fans-react-to-cursed-lamela-footage/

Doing well, enjoying himself... Easier league? Less pressure to perform? I think we have cohesion problems. Our boys may look like they are having fun in the corporate pics, but they're not playing for each other, encouraging and pushing each other like a real team should.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

100% agree, there is and has been an issues in the dressing room for a while.
Every season we lose at least one player and you hope he was the problem and it will sort itself. Doesn't seem to have happened yet.
And we are running out of suspects.......

 

[metalgear]

One thing is for sure; we will not be signing a playmaker a la Eriksen or Pirlo any time soon...

i'd say the same before paratici arrived. now that he's here its his job to assemble a squad that can do better than before!

 

[Finney Is Back]

No wonder some fans do not know what is going on at times, their heads are full of the XG rubbish and the different way some explain it usually to fit their narrative.

To be fair I didn't expect you to understand it mate.... Too new and technical for you I guess.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I like xG for each shot
The fact there isn’t one standard model though is worrying
I really really don’t like it for cumulative shots
I know how it works
I’ve read up on it as I’m interested in data
As I’ve said it doesn’t have enough variables for anything other than analysing a shot in isolation because of that
Would you agree a shot form Kane is likely to be better than a shot from sissoko? That’s not factored into any model I know of
Timing of the effort is massive variable. Late in the game, tired legs mean better opportunities. Not factored in
Home to away and crowds - I don’t think that’s in any model either
The state of the pitch, ball, the opposition
Hence why I don’t mind it for indivisible chances, but not cumulatively.
And the Brighton xG was goals scored in a game (so expected points one). Didn’t factor crap strikers, better opposition etc…
As I said vs Wolves we created the better chances. I saw it with my eyes, xG backed that up
Same as Watford. I added into the Watford mix that their keeper made 7 saves which was the most of any keeper on the division at that point. The saves though were a combination of poor shot execution and good work from him. But he did massively rooster up sons shot

I think you and I are simply never going to agree on this one.
You think we were comfortable in our wins
My thoughts are that on chances created we just about shaded the game against Watford, got a bit lucky to beat Wolves (where ignoring our penalty they had the better chances and had a decent penalty shout turned down themselves), were lucky to beat Emirates Marketing Project and got exactly what we deserved against Palace.
I say the XG supports my view. You say the Watford keeper making 7 saves supports your view.
Shall we agree to disagree and remain friends?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agree with this all the way.

It is clear why he wanted Traore and clear why I believe we will be back in for him this January. Not that I am necessary a fan...

Indeed. He is desperate for a Traore type as otherwise it is very hard to transition from defence to attack due to so little creativity in the midfield three.

 

[Legohamster]

I don’t see it that way at all. It’s quite clear our buying model has gone back to ones for the future. Bryan Gil,Romero,Sarr,Royal etc These are guys in their early 20s not expected to hit the ground running. Our signings have barely played a handful of games between them to date…..

There will still be pressure on him to achieve top 6 this season, some won’t be happy unless it’s top 4 as they believed a switch of manager was all that was needed.

If there are many more showings like sat he won’t be around long and I don’t see a DOF stepping in to protect him.

 

[Legohamster]

...and if that is the way we continue this season, then Nuno does need to get results. People will give him at least half the season if progress is made, and more likely the full season, but the following quote will be ringing in people's ears if the football isnt better come say Feb/Mar time

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Last two managers have been defensive managers, that’s the direction the club wants to go for the moment it seems

that, or as I mentioned the other day he’s a stop gap - If mopo doesn’t win the CL he’s out in the summer

 

[AdamB]

Indeed. He is desperate for a Traore type as otherwise it is very hard to transition from defence to attack due to so little creativity in the midfield three.

how about getting more creativity into midfield then? Or playing a different system to suit the players?

 

[Diamond Lights]

The problem with xg is like so many stats…. They can be used to spin a story
I prefer goal for, and against, ideally supplement by shots in target and against. Their factual elements that don’t need a “model” for

xG is a stat just like any other. What worries me is we rank 18th in the League on Shots.

Look Nuno needs to be given time. I'm not a fan of the pasting he's getting after one loss. He might not be the guy we needed, but it's too early to determine that. As i said previously, for Palace he was dealt a bad hand but played it terribly.

By Christmas, we should have an idea of things far better. First 6 games in we'd have played:
City at home, Chelsea at home, Wolves and Arsenal away. Those are 4 tough games out of 6, with Watford and home and Palace away being 'winnable' at best. I know there's 'no easy games' but this is a team entirely in transition.

We compare to Poch days but the fact is, recruitment has been a fudgein brick show from the middle of Poch's reign. Is there a single player in today's First XI that would get in over any of the Poch 2017/18 squad? unlikely.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think you and I are simply never going to agree on this one.
You think we were comfortable in our wins
My thoughts are that on chances created we just about shaded the game against Watford, got a bit lucky to beat Wolves (where ignoring our penalty they had the better chances and had a decent penalty shout turned down themselves), were lucky to beat Emirates Marketing Project and got exactly what we deserved against Palace.
I say the XG supports my view. You say the Watford keeper making 7 saves supports your view.
Shall we agree to disagree and remain friends?

No no no no
Yes yes yes yes

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Indeed. He is desperate for a Traore type as otherwise it is very hard to transition from defence to attack due to so little creativity in the midfield three.

100%
Nunos game is about control and that starts with control wide to drive that transition (as per the TIFO video you posted). One thing Traore would do is give us that transition

I do think the fix for us is one holder, one b2b player and one more creative type

dele is the only b2b we have (possibly Lo Celso)

We could argue that Tanguy, Lo Celso (hasn’t really shown it yet) and Brian are the only creative ones

we have 2 DMs and winks

 

[parklane1]

The problem with xg is like so many stats…. They can be used to spin a story
I prefer goal for, and against, ideally supplement by shots in target and against. Their factual elements that don’t need a “model” for

You mean football in reality not some number cruncher having a laugh.

 

[parklane1]

To be fair I didn't expect you to understand it mate.... Too new and technical for you I guess.

I do not fall easily for flimflam ( unlike others) you mean.

 

[braineclipse]

xG is a stat just like any other. What worries me is we rank 18th in the League on Shots.

Look Nuno needs to be given time. I'm not a fan of the pasting he's getting after one loss. He might not be the guy we needed, but it's too early to determine that. As i said previously, for Palace he was dealt a bad hand but played it terribly.

By Christmas, we should have an idea of things far better. First 6 games in we'd have played:
City at home, Chelsea at home, Wolves and Arsenal away. Those are 4 tough games out of 6, with Watford and home and Palace away being 'winnable' at best. I know there's 'no easy games' but this is a team entirely in transition.

We compare to Poch days but the fact is, recruitment has been a fudgein brick show from the middle of Poch's reign. Is there a single player in today's First XI that would get in over any of the Poch 2017/18 squad? unlikely.

I definitely agree with giving both him and Paratici time. Some of our recruitment had been getting better even before Paratici. Bergwijn is starting to show what he can do, Reguilon is very good, Hojbjerg has been excellent.

I do think you get better at what you try to do with consistency. We've tried to become a solid defensive unit and good counter attacking team. We've done rather well at those things. Should serve us well in the next couple of games.

We have to start getting better in other phases of play, it takes time, but there has to be progress. With or without Ndombele, Lo Celso or Gil, steps in the right direction.

If we require the intense defensive work rate of Hojbjerg to make the current system work it won't exactly be easy to find a player that can do that and add the creativity needed unless the entire team steps up in that regard. Again, time, but progress should be shown.

 

[AdamB]

We've tried to become a solid defensive unit and good counter attacking team. We've done rather well at those things.

Thats a good plan against top top teams, but if we have ambitions to be a top 4 team, then being a counter-attacking team is unlikely to cut it. I really do support giving Nuno time even though, jeez, some of his decisions (Palace line-up, Emerson sub for Moura at Rennes etc) and tactics really make that tough

To a post by someone else above, his appointment was odd and its possible that he's just a stop-gap until Poch inevitably gets sacked and replaced by a more fashionable manager at PSG. I could buy that - he's a decent likeable person who people would want to succeed and won't act like that repulsive Portuguese guy before him...and maybe last summer and next summer we rebuild the squad in time for MoPo to take it back over?

I'm not someone who thinks that Poch is the Messiah however we couldnt possibly attract another manager of his calibre if it wasnt him and wasnt for his previous time at the club. Really, if we canned Nuno next spring with us, say, 10th in the table who would we get?