1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Please read this post: https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/fund-raising-for-jeremy-yermiyahu.10542/
    Dismiss Notice

Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Discussion in 'Classic Threads' started by DubaiSpur, 27 May 2014.

  1. billyiddo

    billyiddo Terry Dyson Staff Member

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    24,407
    Likes Received:
    15,301
    Location:
    SE4
    Compared to last season I'd struggle to say we have even played a press this season at all
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2017
    Bullet likes this.
  2. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    29 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    8,012
    Location:
    Ottawa, actually.
    We were pretty relentless against West Brom, tbh - I kept alternating between being delighted by how thoroughly we were rinsing them and being scared that we'd run out of steam in the second half and let them back into it if we weren't at least two/three to the good by then.

    Ditto City, and against Chelsea. But I'll agree that our relentless pressing hasn't been as constant this season as it was last year.
     
  3. harr1984

    harr1984 Frederic Kanoute

    Joined:
    16 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    5,373
    Maybe Poch is learning lessons and is adapting to the way his teams normally burn out towards end of season....
     
  4. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Edgar Davids

    Joined:
    17 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    5,571
    I think it is a bit of a myth that Poch teams "burn out." We didn't 'burn out' last season. We fell apart in our final 2 games partly because we were mentally shot after the Chelsea game and because we lost key players. In his first season we were inconsistent throughout due to our poor defensive record but we still won our final game to finish fifth.
     
    Spur of the moment likes this.
  5. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Edgar Davids

    Joined:
    17 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    5,571
    We pressed city very high and west brom, that's 2 off the top of my head.
     
  6. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Jimmy Neighbour

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    8,706
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    Location:
    Blackheath
    I think we have changed from "pressing" to "intensity" - because that includes with the ball.
    If you are an opponent you have to be switch on all the time because you know you'll either be getting pressed, or have someone running and trying to cut a pass out etc, it is relentless.
    And when we choose to relex it it's because we choose to, but an opponent doesn't know that so has to stay 400% switched on. They switch off for a second and we are intelligent enough to exploit it.
     
    glorygloryeze likes this.
  7. harr1984

    harr1984 Frederic Kanoute

    Joined:
    16 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    5,373
    You are right about last season, but I wouldnt say its a myth. I don't have the stats but I have seen pieces showing the decline in results towards the end of the season and this stems back to his Southampton days and maybe even before that with Espanyol. Lets hope last season is the norm....
     
  8. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,522
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    This is very interesting; can you elaborate more on this please?
     
  9. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Jimmy Neighbour

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    8,706
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    Location:
    Blackheath
    When we have the ball at the back (and this often includes the half way line) we are just moving the ball around being in control and everyone is looking for an opportunity to create some space or make a run. But we can do that when it works for us and the players trust in each other. But the opposition don't know when it's coming or where from.
    We also move the ball with propose at those times, if you watch we move it around to change the shape and angles of our team, this creates space and opportunities. As an opponent you either stay rigid to your formation, allowing us time and space, or you move with us and tear your own shape apart. You are also trying to win a game and want the ball, but you are In two minds - if you sit back, we dictate, if you go hunting we move the ball and exploit the space you have created and the space your team mates create by covering.


    Sent from my Nexus 5X using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
     
  10. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,522
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Thanks, and again very interesting.
    Almost sounds like we are playing (or attempting to play) like how Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and perhaps Emirates Marketing Project used to BE in their recent pomp; basically exactly like a Top Team.

    How do you think this has changed over the time since Poch has been with us?
    Do you think he has been working towards this point?
    Do you think what you describe this season is an amalgamation of the way we were in each of the two previous seasons?
     
  11. FatBloke

    FatBloke Ramon Vega

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Vastly simplifying things into a sort of computer game scenario, I think you can look at each player as having a certain amount of energy available. If he plays 90 minutes at high intensity, he needs a certain amount of time to recharge. Two games in a week and he's running out of steam by the end of the second. Extend that over a season, or even a month, and he's going into games starting at 80%.

    Our press means using more energy for each game. However, the better coached it gets, the more efficient it will become -- if our players know exactly where (and when) to run, and improve their reading of the game, they use less energy.

    If we dominate and get the chance to play the ball around the back for a while, less energy is used. If we can hold possession through sharp passing and efficient movement, less energy is used.

    Of course, some players have bigger tanks than others -- we now have a superfit young squad, which has to be worth a lot.

    Cyclists talk about going into the "red zone". That's like busting your gut for the last 10-15 minutes of a game that you're losing. In terms of energy expended, how much is that? Is it equal to 45 minutes in a cagey first half? That's how I think Fergie used to rotate his teams -- taking key players off for the last 10 minutes, usually when the game has been won.

    So I think, this season more than last, Poch is able to rotate key players SLIGHTLY, just enough to keep something in reserve. Hopefully it'll all come good at the end of the season...
     
  12. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,522
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Thanks. Which games can you point to where Poch has been applying such methods this season in your opinion?
     
  13. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Christian Ziege

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    10,740
    Likes Received:
    10,242
  14. JerusalemMan

    JerusalemMan Dean Richards

    Joined:
    6 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    6,350
    Likes Received:
    5,253
    He's said that Newell's is a dream job for him - or at least one that he really wants to do. But he has also said that he's not ready for it.
    I love that self-awareness to know he cannot yet go into the Argentinean League because he doesn't know enough to make a success of the job he'd want to do.
     
  15. FatBloke

    FatBloke Ramon Vega

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Why did I just know you'd ask that?!

    Okay, here are the substitutions from the last six league matches:

    HULL
    Alli 62 (Winks), Kane 74 (Son), Sissoko 85 (Onomah)

    BURNLEY
    Dembele 63 (Sissoko), Alli 73 (Son), Rose 77 (Davies)

    SOUTHAMPTON
    Sissoko 74 (Son), Dembele 82 (Winks), Kane 89 (Janssen)

    WATFORD
    Alli 61 (Winks), Rose 68 (Davies), Kane 77 (Janssen)

    CHELSEA
    Dembele 74 (Winks), Alli 86 (Sissoko), Kane 92 (Son)

    WEST BROM
    Verts 64 (Davies), Dembele 83 (Winks), Kane 90 (Son)


    Dembele, Kane and Alli make up 13 out of 18 substitutions. Of the remaining 5, two were a knackered-out Rose and another was an injured Vertonghen. So clearly, Poch is trying to save those three. Dembele's probably our least fit outfield player, and usually comes off first -- nice to have Winks able to come on and keep it tidy.

    Against So'ton, Chelsea and West Brom, Kane came off a little later than I thought. My point still stands though, in that he's been given priority rest at the very end of those games.

    One thing that's clear is that Walker is an absolute MACHINE. Eriksen too, of course.
     
    glorygloryeze likes this.
  16. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,522
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Thanks again. You know what my next question is dontacha?:)

    Looking back to last season do you think Poch (effectively) threw the EL games in March because he wasn't able to rotate those 3 key players and he could see (perhaps from the West Ham and Arsenal games) that if we carried on trying to juggle the two competitions we may have also finished outside the top 4?
     
  17. Gazza

    Gazza Chris Armstrong

    Joined:
    16 Jul 2013
    Messages:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    3,989
    Great insight ... go to a different forum
     
    FatBloke likes this.
  18. FatBloke

    FatBloke Ramon Vega

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Heh. Let me just check on the ol' crystal balls...

    I don't think that's quite it. I don't think not finishing top 4 was the issue, but rather that we were in with a chance to WIN THE WHOLE DAMN THING for the first since 1961. I'll bet that at some point Poch had a meeting with Levy, and probably some other key personnel, and decided to go all out to win the Premiership.

    If we were happily sitting in 3rd place with Leicester and Arsenal (for example) out of reach, I think the Europa League would have been worth a shot.

    Anyway, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Poch has to make the tough decisions. If we'd beaten Chelsea and West Brom, leading to Leicester getting the jitters and dropping points, who knows what might have happened? There might be a big ol' trophy in the cabinet at WHL, Poch would be lauded as a goddamn genius, and everyone would have forgotten about the Europa.

    Assuming we get past Gent in February, what happens next? If we're within a few points of Chelsea in March, and playing well, I would be perfectly happy for Poch to "throw" the Europa again. It'd be nice to win a trophy, any trophy, but if there's a real chance of winning the Prem, that's the one I'd want to go for. Audere est facere.
     
  19. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Rafael Van Der Vaart

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    11,522
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Thanks again. OK last question i promise :)

    Do you think we were showing signs of "press fatigue" last season when we let Arsenal come back into the game at WHL? (IIRC correctly they even seemed more likely to win even though they had 10 men; IIRC they created more key chances in the last 20 mins and we seemed in the end to 'hang on' for the point...)
     
  20. FatBloke

    FatBloke Ramon Vega

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    I'm not reading anything into that one. Coquelin got sent off, we scored two quick goals, then Arsenal regrouped, got their act together and equalised. They had the momentum and came at us with everything they had. Mason came on for Lamela, Davies replaced Rose, and Son came on for Dembele. That's three key players off the pitch -- Lamela was our best presser back then. Also, Giroud came on for them.

    Arsenal are a good side with some world class players. I'm not going to pick that one game as evidence of systemic pressing-derived fatigue. Sure, Arsenal were probably fresher at the end of the game due to not pressing like maniacs for the previous 75 minutes, but that's an in-match issue.

    If the same match had happened against Hull or Watford, I'd be a little more concerned.
     
    glorygloryeze likes this.

Share This Page