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European Super League - Dead on arrival

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by milo, 18 Apr 2021.

  1. fernadez

    fernadez Neil Sullivan

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    The base of the argument was is unfair to have teams not qualifying on merit. The new CL has teams not qualifying on merit.

    Both are ways to ensure historical big clubs don't miss out.
     
    thfcsteff and Baleforce like this.
  2. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Chris Perry

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    <10% of them.... who actually HAVE qualified on some sort of sporting merit (I.e. having the highest coefficient of all clubs not in the competition).
     
  3. Baleforce

    Baleforce Jack L. Jones

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    It's all in the marketing, if they had dangled some goodies in front of Sky/BeIN/BT for a few years at the start it would have happened.
     
    mephitis, SteveAWOL, Robbo and 3 others like this.
  4. Legohamster

    Legohamster Johnny Morrison

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    Perez isn’t letting this go, says the clubs have signed a legally binding contract
     
  5. harr1984

    harr1984 Frederic Kanoute

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    Perez is just desperate. Considering JP Morgan themselves have pulled out, I really don’t know where he thinks he’s going with Derp...
     
  6. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Chris Perry

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    I expect thats true.... Fingers crossed this will only cost us single figure millions and not a lot more...
     
  7. Legohamster

    Legohamster Johnny Morrison

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    He’s saying they haven’t


    The Real president added it was "not true" American investment bank JP Morgan - who had provided a 3.5bn euro (£2.8bn) grant to the founding members - had abandoned the ESL.

    "They have taken some time for reflection, just like the 12 clubs. If we need to make changes we will but the Super League is the best project we've thought of," Perez said.

    "What we have done is taken a few weeks to reflect in light of the fury of certain people who don't want to lose their privileges and have manipulated the project."
     
    harr1984 likes this.
  8. fernadez

    fernadez Neil Sullivan

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    I don't see why 10% is any better than 400%.
     
  9. Bishop

    Bishop Andy Sinton

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    You really don't see any difference between 90% of places being determined by the previous season's league standings and non of the places being determined by sporting performance? Really?

    All places should be decided on by sporting results but that's a UEFA sop towards the big clubs who don't think they should be required to actually qualify.
     
    billyiddo likes this.
  10. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    I wrote about exactly this sort of brick. It is laughable.
     
    Legohamster likes this.
  11. Spur of the moment

    Spur of the moment John Lacy

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    Quite right. I'm still fuming about the way the gooners cheated their way into the top flight at our expense back in 1918/19. :mad:
     
    Bishop likes this.
  12. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    I think it is semantics. Illusion. Let's be honest, the way FFP has NOT been implemented (see Emirates Marketing Project) by those crooks at FIFA and UEFA just means that those 15 clubs, by and large, will always be in the CL regardless. Every so often one club breaks through. We were the club in the last decade, but it took a miracle (one we sacked I might point out - I know we agree on that). The new CL proposals will cause more stress, harm and injury to players FWIW. I did NOT like the ESL proposal one bit, but again, UEFA were skirting very similar Iines, and by not taking things such as FFP seriously, they make a mockery of 'competition' IMO and have done for too long.
     
    StephenH likes this.
  13. Bishop

    Bishop Andy Sinton

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    The problem with this argument is that the expanded CL has not been driven by UEFA. Instead it was driven by the very same clubs who decided that UEFA weren't following their instructions quickly enough so we're taking their ball home with them.

    So you can call them crooks if you wish but it's the ECA that have been lobbying UEFA for the last 15 years for some sort of permanent status for their member clubs.

    Even the dissolution of the CWC and expansion of the CL was again done to placate the seperatist ambitions of the ECA members. It's been a long and ongoing struggle by UEFA to keep the big boys on side.
     
  14. fernadez

    fernadez Neil Sullivan

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    That's the point, whatever way you cut it, it's the same teams competing. The chances of one of the 10% who get though on historical performance winning the CL is higher than that plucky one season wonder team.

    The fact that everyone is subdued now and thinks that the fans and football have won by doing nothing but keeping the status quo is laughable. UEFA, FIFA the Premier League have come out of this looking like the voice of the people. Sky are being credited as sticking it to immoral businessmen who they say are only in it for money.

    Irony.
     
    mephitis and scaramanga like this.
  15. Bishop

    Bishop Andy Sinton

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    Regarding FFP, UEFA did want to implement it strongly but City made it clear to them they would challenge the decisions on court. So again it is an ECA member that makes UEFA toothless.

    The truth is the big clubs want their cake and want to eat it too. They want the lion's share of the revenue and they want to minimise the risks involved.
     
    thfcsteff likes this.
  16. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Ralph Coates

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    That’s the name of the game now
     
    thfcsteff likes this.
  17. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    As is mate, it still gives UEFA no "moral guardians" stand whatsover. They have a rule? Implement it or try to. The truth is they need these clubs and as such are tinkled off their bricky expansion plan was not taken first.
     
  18. Bishop

    Bishop Andy Sinton

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    You're not listening UEFA did implement their rules and City challenged them in the courts and won.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ions-league-ban-news-latest-a9553426.html?amp


    The narrative seems to be that UEFA want there to be 15 million teams in the CL, they don't. Or that they want transfer fees and wages to keep spiraling, they don't. They've actually implemented rules to stop both things but the club's challenged it in the courts re FFP and decided to leave UEFA entirely with the ESL.

    I'm not trying to make UEFA appear blameless but the mess European football is in regarding wages and the current mess of European intercontinental football is all at the behest of the ECA leading teams. They are the ones who argued for enlargement of the CL in 1999. It was the ECA that wanted to dissolve the UEFA Cup and CWC and only have a larger CL. UEFA tried to appease them by merging the competitions to try and increase the money available. Even making the winners entrants to the next year's CL and having CL dropouts in the Europa. Again that wasn't deemed enough because frankly the likes of AC Milan don't think playing in the Europa is good enough for them.

    If we are apportioning blame we need to it lay at the feet of those responsible and that is the leading clubs of Europe because they have been leading UEFA in this direction for last 20 odd years. Every time they made a demand, the threat of a super League was always there.

    This time the ECA just decided they didn't want to negotiate anymore.
     
  19. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Ralph Coates

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    Yep
    Very few clubs are owned by investment vehicles
    Most are owned by fans of the clubs
    But at the top table where most of the money is at okay there is a real mid bag of owner motivations and that’s reflected in their position on things like ESL
    I have to say that the more Americans that have got involved the more clubs have looked like investment vehicles, which totally goes against the same this of the foundations of these clubs
    I did as brief check of the time like of money driven changes to the English league
    Some examples were
    Liverpool - created by a landlord as Everton wouldn’t pay the increase in rent
    Arsenal - moved ground to a more affluent area non-figuratively betraying their roots
    Wage cap removed
    First £m player
    First £99,999 player brought too (Greaves for us as we wouldn’t pay the £100k)
    First club brought by a “country” in city
    Rebelled creating the premier league ... and turning their backs on 100 years of history
    There are loads and loads of these
    The game evolves
    City wanted Robinho so had to offer him silly money to buy him, artificially inflating the market
    Actually the best example was the legend of Seth Johnson to Leeds. They negotiated his salary without knowing what he was actually earning abs offers him triple his wages (the story wasn’t true but showed how silly the game was going)
    Players like Zaha and possibly Grealish have priced themselves out of lives by signing contracts with their boyhood clubs. Hey haven’t done anything wrong in any normal state of affairs but because the clubs had so much money due to TV rights they bumped their salaries in exchange for long contracts. That meant their owners could out a crazy fee on their heads which no one would pay (we will see with Grealish this summer)
    The players come out of the ESL scenario without any tarnish on their name but the whole thing is driven around money needed to buy and pay for them
    Haalands rumoured £1m a week is the next level of craziness even for a player who looks as good as he does
     
    P.D. likes this.
  20. Bishop

    Bishop Andy Sinton

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    400%

    The craziest thing is a football club isn't an inherently expensive thing to run and maintain. Sure you have infrastructure costs but once you have a stadium maintenance costs are not especially high, you have few constantly amenities it's mainly an empty space on non match days.

    The only real and significant cost are player wages. Some of that is greed on the part of agents and players but I honestly think a lot of it is driven by the clubs. The desire for the next great player means they will pay him more than whatever he's currently earning to entice them to their team. It's a never ending spiral which eventually leads to an ESL where those teams in position just think fudge it if we give ourselves this massive financial rise we can use the massive financial advantage pick and choose from the carcass of the rest of the football world and at the same shield ourselves from the usual risk of not actually performing well.

    It's morally reprehensible.
     
    Bedfordspurs likes this.

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